Working Draft Beer Co Brews Traditional Pilsners w/ Co-founder Clint Lohman

Decker: 00:00:04

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Respecting the Beer.

Decker: 00:00:09

I am Decker and we are all in our own hunkered down basements as the, uh, tornadoes ravage northeast Wisconsin.

Decker: 00:00:17

Uh, Gary is in his house, though we do believe he might be going after some houses in a land of Oz. With us today is Bobby.

bobby: 00:00:29

So he is back from the far side of the moon today, like he was, if this comes out in sequence, that's where he was last we spoke.

Decker: 00:00:36

up so that, uh, when the, when this house falls, it's, uh, it's smashing a witch.

Decker: 00:00:40

We got Bobby here, the, uh, brewer of Mc Fleshman.

Decker: 00:00:42

Bobby, what's going on today?

bobby: 00:00:46

What up two beers in waiting for Clint to arrive late.

bobby: 00:00:50

This was by design, I'm sure, but

Decker: 00:00:52

all, uh, we'd be loose goosey by the time that he showed up.

Decker: 00:00:55

So,

bobby: 00:00:56

Yeah.

Decker: 00:00:57

from Working Draft Brewery out of our working draft beer out of, uh, where you guys out of Madison?

Clint: 00:01:03

Madison, Wisconsin.

Clint: 00:01:04

Yeah.

Decker: 00:01:05

on Clint.

Decker: 00:01:06

Well, welcome aboard and, uh, tell us a little bit about your brewery.

Clint: 00:01:10

Yeah, so we're a a seven barrel brewery on the near east side of Madison, opened in 2018.

Clint: 00:01:17

Focus on a lot of European style lager, American style hop, yas, and everything in between.

Clint: 00:01:24

So yeah, coming up on our eighth anniversary here.

Decker: 00:01:27

Well, congratulations on that.

Decker: 00:01:28

Um,

bobby: 00:01:29

what?

bobby: 00:01:30

What's the date of that anniversary?

Clint: 00:01:31

think it was March 5th, but we bumped the anniversary party back to kind of end of April.

Clint: 00:01:37

I want say it's April 24th.

Decker: 00:01:40

That'd be a Friday.

bobby: 00:01:41

Yeah, so that's right there, man.

Clint: 00:01:43

weekend we'll redo an anniversary party just to get, get some nicer weather.

Clint: 00:01:47

It's kind of a bummer trying to celebrate that stuff when it's like gloomy.

Clint: 00:01:50

End of winter,

bobby: 00:01:52

Yeah,

Clint: 00:01:52

spring.

bobby: 00:01:54

so we're, basically twins then.

bobby: 00:01:56

'cause we opened in early May of

Clint: 00:01:58

really?

bobby: 00:01:59

years ago, so, yeah.

Clint: 00:02:01

All right.

Clint: 00:02:02

Hell

bobby: 00:02:02

Right on.

Clint: 00:02:02

2018.

Decker: 00:02:04

uh, the big push for European style beers in 2018.

Decker: 00:02:08

So what was the, uh, what's the,

bobby: 00:02:10

Right.

Decker: 00:02:11

beer that got you, uh, interested in, in diving into that style?

Clint: 00:02:16

I would say the, the first European lagger that got me that really kind of like blew my mind was kroner.

Clint: 00:02:23

I was at a, a Madison Craft Brew Week event.

Clint: 00:02:26

Really hadn't drank a lot of European style lager.

Clint: 00:02:29

Had that at a, at a booth, and it just was mind blowing, you know, it was just so different from the American Pale Laggers that I was used to drinking.

Clint: 00:02:39

And, you know, being German beer, I think they've got things so, so tightly dialed into that.

Clint: 00:02:44

Even drinking craft lagers At that time, really not even anywhere near the same, but I think, you know, American craft brewers are starting to catch up to that.

Decker: 00:02:54

Did you, uh, then did you do like the home brewing route?

Decker: 00:02:57

How did you get into, uh, you know, get to be able to open an entire brewery?

Clint: 00:03:02

Yeah, so I

Decker: 00:03:03

I was.

Clint: 00:03:03

I went straight from high school into the workforce, um, found that to be pretty soul crushing pretty quickly.

Clint: 00:03:10

So.

Clint: 00:03:11

You know, my, my dad worked factory jobs my whole life and I was just kinda like, cool, that's what I'm gonna do.

Clint: 00:03:16

Wasn't really a, a huge fan of school, so I just went straight to that.

Clint: 00:03:20

and then, yeah, by the time I was like

Clint: 00:03:25

I was pretty well burnt out on, on working just soul crushing assembly line work type jobs.

Clint: 00:03:32

I was working in the printing industry, which also is not, um, pretty doom and gloom as you can imagine.

Clint: 00:03:39

You know, print media is.

Clint: 00:03:41

Isn't a, a something with a bright future.

Clint: 00:03:44

So, I decided I wanna do something else and I was always an adventurous beer drinker.

Clint: 00:03:48

Even when I was in high school, I was, I would send my older sisters to a, to the grocery store with a list of, of beers to find for me

Decker: 00:03:56

Which, if we could just take a super quick pause and say, that is the most Wisconsin growing up story ever of being like, well, actually I refined my, uh, my craft beer palette, my, uh, my late teens in high school.

Clint: 00:04:08

Yeah.

Decker: 00:04:09

That's amazing.

Clint: 00:04:10

just like throwing my sisters

bobby: 00:04:12

Yeah.

Clint: 00:04:12

Right now I'm

Decker: 00:04:13

Yeah.

Decker: 00:04:13

Yeah.

Decker: 00:04:13

Well,

Clint: 00:04:13

applying to minor.

Clint: 00:04:14

Right?

Clint: 00:04:15

That's what older siblings are for.

Decker: 00:04:17

exactly.

Clint: 00:04:18

so yeah, we drive past a asylum on my way to work at the printing company.

Clint: 00:04:22

And, and then I just kind of got in my head like, well, that's manufacturing.

Clint: 00:04:26

I have some manufacturing experience, but that's doing something that is more exciting.

Clint: 00:04:30

I would care more about, rather than do the, like I start home brewing as a hobby.

Clint: 00:04:35

And then one turn job, I kind of realized that's what I wanted to do for a job and then started home brewing as a means to learn more about that job in an effort to get that job.

Clint: 00:04:46

I had a buddy gonna school at uw.

Clint: 00:04:47

He was already home brewing, kind of showed me the ropes and I was hooked from the first time I did it.

Clint: 00:04:52

Immediately.

Clint: 00:04:52

Went out, bought some equipment, really into it, and then I was trying to get brewing jobs.

Clint: 00:04:59

So it, I think I can't, I'm trying to remember the sequence of events here.

Clint: 00:05:03

I. Started volunteering at a little brewery in Madison called House of Brewers since, since closed, but it was on the east side of Madison.

Clint: 00:05:11

just helping him out with, with whatever he needed done at the time, he was still doing build out, so I was like taping walls to be painted and any odd job.

Clint: 00:05:20

I did that for like a year whenever I had some free time.

Clint: 00:05:24

Around that time, I also got a job at the wine hop shop, is a home brew store in town that has been around for forever with actually over 50 years old.

Clint: 00:05:32

They opened before.

Clint: 00:05:35

home brewing was even legal, which is interesting.

Clint: 00:05:40

so was kind of my entrance into brewing.

Clint: 00:05:44

And then from the volunteer gig at House of Brewers, so I got connected with Scott Manning from Vintage Brewing Company, came on to help him out.

Clint: 00:05:53

I think it was his first assistant brewer there.

bobby: 00:05:57

Wa was house a brew near Levi Funks area where you had that little, little brewery.

bobby: 00:06:03

Uh, you know what I'm talking about?

bobby: 00:06:04

Uh.

Clint: 00:06:04

it was Levi Funks places like down, like South Side, like, or uh, off Park Street, that little funk.

Clint: 00:06:11

The old funk factory building.

Clint: 00:06:13

This is more like East Side off, off

bobby: 00:06:14

Yeah.

bobby: 00:06:15

Right, right, right.

Clint: 00:06:16

he kinda ended up serving

bobby: 00:06:18

it.

bobby: 00:06:18

Got it.

Clint: 00:06:18

the owner of House of Brewers that kind of ended up becoming like a brewery incubator, like Mob Craft started out of there.

Clint: 00:06:23

I think Dead Bird

bobby: 00:06:24

Yeah.

Clint: 00:06:25

started out of there.

Clint: 00:06:25

So he sort of helped a lot of breweries get started.

bobby: 00:06:30

Got it.

bobby: 00:06:30

But you were at vintage though.

bobby: 00:06:32

You Yeah.

Clint: 00:06:32

did that for two years, learned the time with Scott, then Wisconsin Brewing Company was opening in Verona.

Clint: 00:06:39

So we're all hearing this chatter about this.

Clint: 00:06:41

This big new brewery opening.

Clint: 00:06:42

Kirby Nelson was leaving capital brewing.

Clint: 00:06:44

That was a big deal.

Clint: 00:06:45

He was there for like 30 years.

Clint: 00:06:46

So it was very much like in everybody's mind since this was happening.

Clint: 00:06:50

did a couple of, of kind of pilot brewers before they opened the brewery with a couple of brew pubs friends around town.

Clint: 00:06:56

So they did some pilot brewers with Great Dane, but then also did some with us at Vintage when I was working there.

Clint: 00:07:02

And I totally treated that, that brewing experience with Kirby and, and Mike McGuire as a. As an interview, it's like, I gotta put the old razzle dazzle on here.

Clint: 00:07:13

It's like, try to get a job working for this brewery.

Clint: 00:07:15

And, and that worked.

Clint: 00:07:17

So I, I was able to kind of weasel my way in there.

Clint: 00:07:21

And then I worked with Kirby for three and a half years at Wisconsin Brewing Company.

Clint: 00:07:25

And then kind of towards the tail end of that, some of my buddies from the wine hop shop told me they were looking at opening up a brewery.

Clint: 00:07:31

Initially.

Clint: 00:07:32

I was like, eh, I got a stable job.

Clint: 00:07:34

I'm not really looking to jump ship.

Clint: 00:07:36

then the more I thought about it as like, this might be my only opportunity to maybe be a part of something from like, really the ground up.

Clint: 00:07:45

And so I changed my mind, talked to them.

Clint: 00:07:47

They luckily had somebody else in my overhead brew and that wasn't gonna pan out.

Clint: 00:07:51

So they asked me if I wanted to come aboard.

Clint: 00:07:53

then in those discussions, was able to get some equity in the company as well.

Clint: 00:07:58

So that's was with.

Clint: 00:08:00

Is myself, Ryan Brown, who's no longer with Working Draft, but was one of our founding members, and then Ben Pfeiffer at Who owns the Wine Hop shop.

Clint: 00:08:06

So Ben and I are still very actively involved in the business and that's how I got to Working Draft.

Decker: 00:08:14

Right on.

Decker: 00:08:14

What a journey.

bobby: 00:08:16

Kurt Kirby has to be, you mentioned Kirby.

bobby: 00:08:19

We gotta get Kirby on here at some point.

bobby: 00:08:21

What, what is he as knowledgeable?

bobby: 00:08:24

I, I've had beers with him, but I, I've had three and a half years brewing with him.

bobby: 00:08:28

I, I assume he was as knowledgeable after all those years as what he seems to be over a pint

Clint: 00:08:33

percent.

Clint: 00:08:33

I mean, there's so many Kirbys and just like stories I, I mean, I very much view

bobby: 00:08:39

Kirbys.

Clint: 00:08:40

the, I would say the most foundational mentor.

Clint: 00:08:43

I've had a couple of 'em.

Clint: 00:08:44

Right.

Clint: 00:08:44

But I think that Kirby is, is, I mean, Kirby and I are very close.

Clint: 00:08:48

Kirby officiated my wedding.

Clint: 00:08:50

So like, he's

bobby: 00:08:52

Oh, wow.

Clint: 00:08:52

like family to me at this point.

Clint: 00:08:55

yeah, he was, he had a huge influence on me, especially with Lagger Brewing and just kind of how I approach recipe writing and things like that.

Clint: 00:09:01

A lot of that came from Kirby.

bobby: 00:09:04

I close my eyes and I don't know why I see Steve Dressler when I think about Kirby Nelson of, of Sierra Nevada.

bobby: 00:09:10

So he was he was Ken Grossman's number, number one.

bobby: 00:09:12

Number two, I would call it.

bobby: 00:09:15

I don't know how much that played into his personality, but for some reason it, it makes me think of that when I think about Kirby.

Clint: 00:09:21

eccentric hippie guys from that era.

Clint: 00:09:23

Yep.

bobby: 00:09:24

Yep.

Clint: 00:09:25

Yeah.

bobby: 00:09:25

Yep.

Clint: 00:09:25

is a character.

Clint: 00:09:26

You guys should absolutely have him on the podcast.

Clint: 00:09:28

He's very entertaining.

bobby: 00:09:31

I don't know why that hasn't, I haven't thought of that till just now, but I just circled it,

Clint: 00:09:34

that a priority.

Clint: 00:09:35

He'll do it

bobby: 00:09:35

but Awesome.

bobby: 00:09:38

All right.

bobby: 00:09:38

Tell us about how have been going, how you got started over at Working Draft.

bobby: 00:09:42

How, how that whole process went.

Clint: 00:09:44

when we started the brewery, I knew that I basically started with like a, I wanted to make a, a juicy IPA, uh, like more Piney West Coast.

Clint: 00:09:53

IPA double IPA.

Clint: 00:09:55

That was a combination of the two, and I think we talked about making a palle and then a German pilsner.

Clint: 00:10:01

So those are like the, the main things that we were, that's what we were gonna start with.

Clint: 00:10:07

So actually the first beers we brewed on our system, on our seven barrel system was the German Pilsner.

Clint: 00:10:13

It's our first commercial brewer there.

Clint: 00:10:16

And obviously like that that didn't entirely pan out around that time.

Clint: 00:10:20

Also, hazy IPAs were just sort of becoming a, a thing around here.

Clint: 00:10:24

It was still like a thing that when I was at Wisconsin Brewing Company that we were like, eh, is this really gonna become a thing?

Clint: 00:10:30

But.

Clint: 00:10:31

By the time we got rolling on Working Draft, it was obvious that that was like gonna be a thing that was gonna stick around.

Clint: 00:10:37

So those first four or five beers that we brewed, the only two that have really, or three that have stayed are the double IPA hasn't changed much.

Clint: 00:10:46

The Juicy IPA became hazy IPA.

Clint: 00:10:48

So that's pulp culture.

Clint: 00:10:50

That's our flagship beer.

Clint: 00:10:53

And then the German pills is hindsight, that's seasonal, but that was the German pills was kind of like the starting point of, of really.

Clint: 00:10:59

Ramping up that lagger production and, and, and exploring those styles, which I think has become a thing we're known for in Madison now.

Clint: 00:11:08

and definitely the thing that I'm the most interested in, in exploring and learning about.

Clint: 00:11:13

Not that I don't love our IPAs, but are just, it's just such a, fun taking a deep dive on 'em.

Decker: 00:11:20

What is um hm.

bobby: 00:11:22

Who built your system?

bobby: 00:11:23

Was it QTS?

bobby: 00:11:24

Who built your system?

Clint: 00:11:26

The,

bobby: 00:11:26

Springman.

bobby: 00:11:27

Yeah.

bobby: 00:11:27

Wow.

bobby: 00:11:28

That's awesome.

Clint: 00:11:28

sprinkler.

bobby: 00:11:29

That's, yeah.

Decker: 00:11:30

What makes, um, what makes lager beer so exciting for you?

Decker: 00:11:33

Because when you hear about lager, it's like just an outsider, not a brewer, just a guy that likes to drink beer.

Decker: 00:11:39

You think of lager beer as kind of boring, you know, they're, you know, straightforward.

Decker: 00:11:43

They're beer flavored beers, you know, but what is it?

Decker: 00:11:47

Because that isn't, that isn't true.

Decker: 00:11:49

You know, there's so many different depths of everything.

Decker: 00:11:52

But what is like so exciting about being able to find like way of doing a German pilsner and a Czech pilsner and like all the things in between.

Clint: 00:12:02

I think it's just like how, how technical and nuance it is is really what draws me to it.

Clint: 00:12:08

And again, like if I, the thing that really drove me in learning that stuff was how different the, the German and Czech examples were to a lot of the US examples.

Clint: 00:12:20

And, uh, it was just this mystery of like, why is this, what are they doing different why is it so unique to this area that seems to be so hard to replicate in the United States?

Clint: 00:12:32

And I think that that challenge is what really got me excited and made me.

Clint: 00:12:38

to dive deeper into it.

Clint: 00:12:39

It's like, how do I make beers that taste like they were brewed in Germany or brewed in the Czech Republic, is still like an evolving journey.

Clint: 00:12:46

Right.

Clint: 00:12:46

I feel like we've got, we get better and better at all time, but I wouldn't say I'm nailing it, you know?

Clint: 00:12:51

So it, it's, it's just been a, I think a, for me, a very attractive thing because it is such a, it's just such a challenge and it's taken so much time.

bobby: 00:13:01

what inspired this interview.

bobby: 00:13:03

We were, we were at a beer fest in Madison, I think in January.

bobby: 00:13:07

It was the, the big one at the Alliance Center or whatever, and I think we talked 30 minutes on Czech lager, Czech Pilsner.

bobby: 00:13:15

At that time, I was like, oh my God, with the, the deep dive here, let's just pause and let's just have this on the podcast because we were getting into it.

bobby: 00:13:24

It is interesting, like you're talking about these, these pilsners and what could be different, but turns out the deeper you go into it, it it's just you cover all the bases, whether it's the water chemistry, the hops and malt, and the whole process and equipment and just all the, the brewers, uh, fingerprints.

bobby: 00:13:41

There's so much to it.

bobby: 00:13:42

I'm with you.

bobby: 00:13:43

We were talking about foam for half that 30 minutes, I think.

Clint: 00:13:46

for for perfect foam is like, I feel like a battle.

Clint: 00:13:49

I'm never gonna win, but you just try to get better all the

bobby: 00:13:53

Uh,

Clint: 00:13:54

I think it's, it's also.

bobby: 00:13:56

yeah.

Clint: 00:13:56

I love about lager brewing is that it's, it isn't really, for the most part, a recipe thing.

Clint: 00:14:02

Like the recipes for most of these beers are super, and actually I think this is true across like almost all European beers, a lot of classic beer styles, those recipes are, are simple.

Clint: 00:14:12

And that makes sense if you think about it.

Clint: 00:14:14

Like they, these recipes were invented, they didn't have access to home brew shops or like with a catalog of like a hundred different malts, you know, they had.

Clint: 00:14:24

or two things to work with.

Clint: 00:14:25

Two, if they're lucky, right?

Clint: 00:14:26

So a lot of those beers are, it's the simplicity of the recipe, but then there's so much complexity in the process and how you get to that finished product.

Clint: 00:14:35

there's so many like mysteries in those details.

Clint: 00:14:38

And I, I feel like I'm a detective all the time.

Clint: 00:14:41

Like, I'll watch it a podcast or listen to a podcast or, or watch a interview with a, a German or Czech brewer and try to pick up on these little things they're saying, like, what did they mean by that?

Clint: 00:14:51

that.

Clint: 00:14:52

Could I apply that this way?

Clint: 00:14:53

And it's piecing in these like million little pieces together to try to recreate this thing that, is incredibly difficult to recreate.

bobby: 00:15:03

And they're not cagey about it.

bobby: 00:15:05

They just don't think to mention it.

bobby: 00:15:07

you, and you tease it out of the interview like, wait, wait, wait.

bobby: 00:15:09

Back up.

bobby: 00:15:09

What did you just say it was off the cuff there?

bobby: 00:15:13

I heard a Czech lager maker talk about using flake barley.

bobby: 00:15:18

I'm like, what?

bobby: 00:15:18

What, what?

Clint: 00:15:19

Yeah.

bobby: 00:15:20

Whoa.

bobby: 00:15:20

Back up.

bobby: 00:15:21

He's like, oh yeah.

bobby: 00:15:21

Or foam stands like twice as long with them.

bobby: 00:15:24

Like, oh my God, just so many these things that just pop up in an organic conversation.

Clint: 00:15:30

trying to hide it, it's just that's the way that they've brewed for forever.

bobby: 00:15:32

No.

Clint: 00:15:33

think it's significant, but every little detail is significant.

bobby: 00:15:38

what?

bobby: 00:15:40

Where do you put the music analogy?

bobby: 00:15:41

I was gonna put one together, but you're the music guy.

bobby: 00:15:43

When I'm thinking about Lagger Brewing or hazy IPA brewing, you know, like there has to be, you know, just two extremes there.

Decker: 00:15:50

Lagger

bobby: 00:15:51

I.

Decker: 00:15:51

is, uh, to me would be like your, uh, you know, like your classic rock song, you know, that's like a, like hearing you, we've all heard My Black dog by Led Zeppelin a million and a half times and like at, yeah, it's a great riff.

Decker: 00:16:05

It's a great all overall song, but at the like base of it, it's still, it's like a guitar, a bass, drums, and a singer.

Decker: 00:16:13

And then if you look at like a hazy IPA, you know, and then you've got all the different hops combination and thing, and you can look at like a band, like, um, I guess we could say.

Decker: 00:16:27

Now you put me on the spot and I'm messing 'em.

bobby: 00:16:29

I feel like we are, we're, we're picking on, we're picking on hazy IPA.

bobby: 00:16:32

I don't mean to, but yeah.

Decker: 00:16:34

you get all the flavors and the layers and the texture off of like the, the different hop and things.

Decker: 00:16:38

So I mean, you could look at like a band like, uh, like Mastodon that brings in a whole bunch of different sounds into their song.

Decker: 00:16:46

It's still four people, five people that are making the music, but it sounds way more complex 'cause everything's layered.

Decker: 00:16:52

But is, you know, oblivion a better song than black dog in the, they're both riffs.

Decker: 00:16:58

They're both, a singer, a riff, drums, bass and everything.

Decker: 00:17:02

But if like what you said with, um, a pilsner and you dive into it, this is something I think, um, like, well me personally I'm working on is trying to be intentional on things.

Decker: 00:17:13

And so you're like looking for that little subtlety, that difference, that like.

Decker: 00:17:18

Oh, I am hearing that like the pre reverb of the song when I'm listening to it on, on this classic thing, I hear the sound of the pick hitting the string before the string makes a note.

Decker: 00:17:28

That's like seeing like, oh, they put flake barley in it and that's why that's up.

Decker: 00:17:33

Or they put in, you know, X amount of this hop at, you know, 30 minutes instead of at 20 minutes or whatever.

Decker: 00:17:41

Like, that's the, the type of complexities that like we take for granted, I guess.

Decker: 00:17:46

'cause you're just embracing it.

Decker: 00:17:49

you can get lost in the sauce about basically anything.

bobby: 00:17:54

Music analogies come up a lot on the podcast, and now that we have Decker hosting Decker's A, if you can't tell, he is got a radio voice,

Clint: 00:18:01

Loved it.

bobby: 00:18:01

so

bobby: 00:18:05

Anyway, so, uh, I'm with you, man.

bobby: 00:18:07

Like, when it's that little, those little things that make those lagers just really interesting, especially when they're intentional.

Clint: 00:18:13

beers that are, are simple and really drinkable and, but yet complex is like, it's always the goal, right?

Clint: 00:18:20

that's not always the stuff that is the most

bobby: 00:18:22

Yep.

Clint: 00:18:23

You know, if you look at the highest rated beers out there, it's always something big and loud and kind of messy, right?

Clint: 00:18:30

But I always

bobby: 00:18:32

Yeah.

Clint: 00:18:32

if, if you want a high untapped rating, don't make lager, because it just brings a curve down.

Clint: 00:18:38

You know?

bobby: 00:18:38

No,

Decker: 00:18:39

Yeah.

bobby: 00:18:40

make a hellas.

bobby: 00:18:41

Yeah.

bobby: 00:18:42

Just

Clint: 00:18:42

Unless all

bobby: 00:18:42

Don't even try,

Clint: 00:18:43

it's

bobby: 00:18:43

but make it

Clint: 00:18:44

you do, yeah.

Clint: 00:18:45

But yeah.

bobby: 00:18:47

If you're a beer stu or cohesion.

bobby: 00:18:49

Yeah.

Decker: 00:18:49

is

bobby: 00:18:50

Yeah, a hundred percent.

Decker: 00:18:51

like diving into the like complexities, the sim, simple complexities of a lager, that was kind of like a light bulb moment that you know changed your, you said your German pilsner, that was the first one that you brewed and it wasn't quite that, that awesome.

Decker: 00:19:06

That was in big of a hit.

Decker: 00:19:07

What's something that you've discovered since that came out that is like kind of re rejuvenated that one.

Clint: 00:19:15

Oh, I mean, there's like a million things that I've changed

Decker: 00:19:17

Pick one then.

Clint: 00:19:19

I would say, you know, the, the thing that I think is surprising when I talk to other brewers that I've found to be one of the most impactful things we've done is, is really focusing on getting work in the fermentor.

Clint: 00:19:33

So you have your hops and your protein stuff that kind of coagulate and, and form in the boil kettle, and you carry that stuff over to the fermentor and.

Clint: 00:19:43

cooked vegetable hot material is, has, is really bitter, you know, and as it sits in the beer and the beer becomes alcoholic, that alcohol acts like a solvent and starts to pull some of those harsh, bitter flavors out of the beer.

Clint: 00:19:55

But if you can find ways, clever ways to remove that stuff, it has a huge impact on the finishing of, uh, of a beer that's otherwise pretty simple, right?

Clint: 00:20:05

So a little bit of harshness is gonna really stand out in a pilsner.

Clint: 00:20:10

getting our whirlpool figured out, our whirlpool process, so we have, uh, efficient settling in the whirlpool.

Clint: 00:20:16

We then pump over and the next day drain the cone to get any hops that might have settled on the fermenter.

Clint: 00:20:23

And then also all of our fermenters have top manway so we can open them up and skim the hops that rise up in fermentation and forming the foam and the beer.

Clint: 00:20:32

You skim that stuff out and if you skim that stuff and taste it, it's like.

Clint: 00:20:37

It is almost like licking a thing, a hop extract.

Clint: 00:20:39

It's, it's

Decker: 00:20:40

Oh.

Clint: 00:20:40

intensely bitter

Decker: 00:20:41

Mm-hmm.

Clint: 00:20:42

and it makes you realize, yeah, this stuff in the beer is gonna have a flavor impact.

Clint: 00:20:48

And so

bobby: 00:20:50

Yeah, that you, you made me brave enough to shave the cone.

bobby: 00:20:53

We call it shave the cone the next day, like after we knock out.

bobby: 00:20:56

I, I, I wasn't brave enough till I talked to you.

bobby: 00:20:59

Now it's, it's our SOP

Clint: 00:21:01

a

bobby: 00:21:01

on all.

bobby: 00:21:02

Yeah.

bobby: 00:21:02

All the lagers.

bobby: 00:21:04

Uh, so yeah, we're starting to, it's now been about six or eight weeks since we started doing it, and then we're starting to see it come out down the pipe.

bobby: 00:21:09

Yeah.

bobby: 00:21:11

actually drinking one right now, and it's like, it is really soft.

bobby: 00:21:14

And now I'm thinking, well, I want to, I want to put some more hops now in the kettle.

bobby: 00:21:18

Because that gives me what I'm looking for.

bobby: 00:21:19

And then, yeah, it's, it's interesting.

Clint: 00:21:22

Right.

Clint: 00:21:23

that's some of the

bobby: 00:21:23

Yeah, exactly.

bobby: 00:21:25

Mm-hmm.

Clint: 00:21:25

that by it, like what I was talking about, like just finding clues, like watching videos.

Clint: 00:21:31

You know, there's like a great video of a little brewery in Germany called Adler Brow.

Clint: 00:21:35

They have like a, a kind of, almost like a local German network, did a special on a brew day with them.

Clint: 00:21:40

And that was, I learned a lot from that 'cause that brewery.

Clint: 00:21:44

know, they would go from the brew house into a cool ship and then go into a open fermenter that they would pitch yeast in and then transfer it out of that, open fermenter into another, open fermenter the next day,

bobby: 00:21:54

Yes, yes.

Clint: 00:21:56

open fermenter into the conditioning tank.

Clint: 00:21:58

And it's like, but all those steps were designed clean that

bobby: 00:22:03

Yep.

Clint: 00:22:03

every step of the way.

Clint: 00:22:05

that's like a very old school way to

bobby: 00:22:07

And we do o

Clint: 00:22:08

and everybody.

bobby: 00:22:10

Yeah.

bobby: 00:22:10

And we do open fermented English ales as well.

bobby: 00:22:13

And so we'll, after about three days under an open fermentor foam cap.

bobby: 00:22:17

We're gonna transfer out from under that and off of whatever drops to the bottom.

bobby: 00:22:20

So in the process we've been doing this and not thinking about it.

bobby: 00:22:23

I mean, it's, it sounds like we're just doing like secondary fermentation, but it's very different in an open fermenter.

Decker: 00:22:29

Brow is, uh, that's crazy.

Decker: 00:22:30

He said that that's the, the brewery that was in the stone arch building back in the, uh, the early,

Clint: 00:22:36

like

bobby: 00:22:36

Yeah.

Decker: 00:22:38

yeah.

Clint: 00:22:38

not the same business, I'm

bobby: 00:22:40

Yep.

Clint: 00:22:40

pretty sure, but,

bobby: 00:22:41

I thought about that when you said that.

Decker: 00:22:43

up.

Clint: 00:22:44

yeah, yeah.

Clint: 00:22:45

a couple in Germany as well, but.

Clint: 00:22:48

Yeah, I mean, that's it, that's just one example.

Clint: 00:22:51

I mean, then like dialing pH and, and boil times and the way

bobby: 00:22:55

Yep.

Clint: 00:22:56

and, you know, we've like messed around with recirculating water.

Clint: 00:22:59

We're boiling and not re there's just like so many variables you do.

bobby: 00:23:03

and, and yours.

bobby: 00:23:04

You have a steam boiler, right?

bobby: 00:23:06

If, if I recall, and it's just, it's 15 PSI or 12 or whatever PSI, yeah, you're, you're, you guys are, you're brewing in a way.

bobby: 00:23:14

We are.

bobby: 00:23:14

That's how we brew on a, on a,

Clint: 00:23:16

Yeah.

bobby: 00:23:16

do you call, atmospheric boiler, 15 PSI.

Clint: 00:23:19

is like a Czech made system.

Clint: 00:23:20

Right?

Clint: 00:23:21

That's very cool.

bobby: 00:23:22

Yep.

bobby: 00:23:23

So, yeah, they don't have a word for decoction.

bobby: 00:23:26

That's just how you brew.

bobby: 00:23:27

So it's everything.

bobby: 00:23:28

I mean, not everything, but we do a lot of decoctions

Clint: 00:23:30

awesome.

Clint: 00:23:31

We're,

bobby: 00:23:31

on that system.

Clint: 00:23:32

more actually.

Clint: 00:23:33

And actually our, our kind of flagship Czech pilsner is, is now gonna be deco moving forward.

Clint: 00:23:39

We, it,

bobby: 00:23:39

Yep.

Clint: 00:23:40

is,

bobby: 00:23:41

gonna, you gonna do it twice?

Clint: 00:23:42

I don't,

bobby: 00:23:43

Do a double.

bobby: 00:23:43

You gonna do a double on that?

Clint: 00:23:45

a big temperature jump so that my decoction portion is a substantial chunk of the mash and then do a pretty long

bobby: 00:23:51

Yeah.

Clint: 00:23:52

it, it, it works out.

Clint: 00:23:54

It's pretty, it's making a difference in the beer for sure.

Clint: 00:23:57

We actually have two, two tanks filled with it, but we haven't filtered any, so we're not, we're not at the end product of that yet, so,

bobby: 00:24:06

Oh, and you're, you're doing all plate and frame filtration on all your lagers.

bobby: 00:24:10

Okay.

bobby: 00:24:12

Yeah, I, I've gone back and forth over the years.

bobby: 00:24:14

We have a plate and frame filter and then we'll do, we have lagering tanks too.

bobby: 00:24:18

So I go back and forth and these days I'm back in on team lagger tanks and time.

bobby: 00:24:24

But it's just one of those, I don't know who's right here.

bobby: 00:24:27

'cause it is magical to see all that, uh, that bright beer coming out the other side of that filter.

Clint: 00:24:33

scrubbing a

bobby: 00:24:33

It very much is.

Clint: 00:24:35

like, look at that.

Clint: 00:24:36

We can see my

bobby: 00:24:37

Absolutely,

Clint: 00:24:38

Yeah, I mean, I, I'm a huge

bobby: 00:24:39

totally is.

Clint: 00:24:41

It's a lot of extra work and, set up and filter days.

Clint: 00:24:44

It's like that's what you're doing that day.

Clint: 00:24:46

And there's some

bobby: 00:24:46

Yeah.

Clint: 00:24:47

and stuff, but I, I just think the beers, when they are not filtered and when they are filtered to me coming, it's like they come into focus a little bit more.

Clint: 00:24:57

When you got that yeast and suspension, there is this.

Clint: 00:25:00

Kind of blanket of yeasty character over the beer that sort of dampens or mutes some of the hopper malt character in a way that, uh, isn't unpleasant.

Clint: 00:25:08

Right?

Clint: 00:25:09

It's, it's like bready and a pleasant flavor, but covers up some of the, the nuances of the malt in the hops or like the fermentation profile.

bobby: 00:25:20

Yeah, and the, the, the lager the long lagger people talk about the activity of the yeast.

bobby: 00:25:27

So the scrubbing and the evolution and just the overall oxygen stability to have that yeast in, in the tank down in the lager vessel for however long it sits.

bobby: 00:25:36

I think Sierra Nevada.

bobby: 00:25:38

Really as prescribes that on their lagers.

bobby: 00:25:41

I think a lot of them are, are sitting in, in some sort of lagering vessels for a certain period of time.

bobby: 00:25:46

And, and Sierra Nevada's always been a big fan of doing can and bottle conditioning too, for similar reasons.

bobby: 00:25:54

yeah, I don't know.

bobby: 00:25:54

There's so many ways to skin that cat.

Clint: 00:25:56

know, our lagers are still taking six to eight weeks.

Clint: 00:25:58

We're not, we're giving 'em a pretty ample lagger period before we're filtering 'em.

Clint: 00:26:02

We're not really using filtering as like a

bobby: 00:26:05

Yep.

Clint: 00:26:06

for settling things out as much as just a, a, a finishing polishing touch on a beer that we'd probably feel comfortable pulling outta the fermentor and packaging unfiltered.

Clint: 00:26:18

But.

Clint: 00:26:19

It does change the character a little bit when you filter it.

bobby: 00:26:22

Brightens it up.

bobby: 00:26:24

And, and you do have, uh, you, you're fermenting in uni unit tanks.

Clint: 00:26:29

tanks.

bobby: 00:26:30

Yep.

Clint: 00:26:30

one of the, like the methods that I, I. I'm not as sold on, I've, I've heard a couple brewers that use 'em say that they think it's maybe the, one of the less impactful things in terms of like what makes a beer taste more traditional and traditional processes.

Clint: 00:26:45

But I don't know.

Clint: 00:26:46

I've never used 'em myself, so it's all anecdotal for me.

bobby: 00:26:49

I, think the geometry plays a role here.

bobby: 00:26:52

We're talking about a lot of, it's just about how far the yeast has to settle.

bobby: 00:26:56

That's why we go in those tanks, and then when you look at the tank next to it, which is only like twice as tall or whatever, there's not much advantage there.

bobby: 00:27:04

But when you're talking about tanks that are four or five or six times as tall, then you start to understand why you wanted

Clint: 00:27:09

brewery.

bobby: 00:27:10

to do that in a secondary.

bobby: 00:27:11

Yeah.

Clint: 00:27:12

Um, you know, you've

bobby: 00:27:13

Mm-hmm.

Clint: 00:27:14

seen like pictures of like the in Bovar, they have one humongous lagering tank that's probably like, I don't even know.

Clint: 00:27:22

Maybe a thousand hectare liters or something like that.

Clint: 00:27:24

And it's like that in a, in a batch

bobby: 00:27:26

Yeah.

Clint: 00:27:27

that large, that makes sense that that distance is,

Clint: 00:27:32

huge game

bobby: 00:27:33

Yep.

bobby: 00:27:35

It's a quarter million pints to my estimate.

bobby: 00:27:38

I think that's what that number comes to.

Clint: 00:27:39

a lot of

Decker: 00:27:39

beyond, beyond the Pilsner, what other, what other styles of lager are you, um, are you exploring?

Clint: 00:27:46

mean, we've pretty, I I have a hard time naming beer styles.

Clint: 00:27:49

We haven't brewed at this point.

Clint: 00:27:52

We've done so many different beers, but you know, we do, four kind of core Czech laggers that we brew.

Clint: 00:27:59

One of 'em is year round.

Clint: 00:28:01

The other three are seasonal, but so we'll do our Czech Pilsner, which is our 12 Play-Doh Czech pill lager.

Clint: 00:28:07

We do 10 snack is our 10 Play-Doh Czech Pill lager, and then we do a Czech Amber lager and a Czech Dark lager as well.

Clint: 00:28:15

So those beers all get brewed every year.

Clint: 00:28:18

but then, you know, we have Czech Fest coming up the weekend of June 5th, I,

bobby: 00:28:24

I'm gonna try to get you our Czech.

bobby: 00:28:26

Pilsner.

bobby: 00:28:27

I just now realized I didn't respond to that.

bobby: 00:28:29

Yeah.

bobby: 00:28:29

Yeah,

Clint: 00:28:30

we, we put 16 different chch style beers all poured on Luker faucets.

Clint: 00:28:36

For that weekend.

Clint: 00:28:37

And usually about half of 'em are ours.

Clint: 00:28:38

So we have those core four, but then I'm always sprinkling other stuff along the way or throughout the year that I'll, that I'll kind of sit on.

Clint: 00:28:46

We have a one barrel pilot system as well, so I have a lot of room to explore and, make some other kind of wonky

bobby: 00:28:56

you have the same brewery.

bobby: 00:28:57

have a seven barrel system.

bobby: 00:28:59

We have a one barrel system.

bobby: 00:29:01

We do plate and frame filtration.

bobby: 00:29:03

it's crazy.

bobby: 00:29:05

We're masochistic at the same time it sounds like.

Clint: 00:29:07

better, I'll sacrifice myself for it.

bobby: 00:29:10

Yeah.

Decker: 00:29:11

Well, I think that's, um, that's why people like going to breweries is because it's the, the artist, the brewer is willing to try something that you're like we never had before.

Decker: 00:29:21

I think that's why like the hazy IPA thing blew up is because like, wow, I've, we, I've spent my entire life looking at beer that's crystal clear or pitch black and there's never anything in between.

Decker: 00:29:33

And now all of a sudden I've got beer that's, you know, orange and yellow or hazy, I can't see through it.

Decker: 00:29:38

It's thick as orange juice type of thing.

Decker: 00:29:41

And now people are, you know, you're finding other ways to make people excited about a fermented beverage.

Clint: 00:29:47

Yeah.

Clint: 00:29:48

Yeah.

Clint: 00:29:49

Well I think like some of the lager

bobby: 00:29:51

Decker you.

Clint: 00:29:51

just the people's drinking habits changing and they tend to be moderate A BV and, you know, I, I think everybody's kind of coming full circle and coming back around to the, the classics and I, I'm here for it.

bobby: 00:30:05

Yeah.

bobby: 00:30:06

So we've been saying it's the year of the lager for what, 12 years now?

Clint: 00:30:10

I don't

bobby: 00:30:11

It's finally year.

Clint: 00:30:12

a year.

bobby: 00:30:13

right.

Clint: 00:30:14

it's like let's have it be

bobby: 00:30:15

Yeah,

bobby: 00:30:18

exactly.

bobby: 00:30:19

And also it's never gone away.

bobby: 00:30:20

It's always been the top selling style.

bobby: 00:30:22

If you look at the, the overall market, deck, are you gonna bring up this rice lager?

Decker: 00:30:26

uh, on your Facebook page, you had a smoked it smoked rice lager that you tapped in?

Decker: 00:30:32

Uh, back wild rice?

Decker: 00:30:34

Yeah.

bobby: 00:30:34

rice

Clint: 00:30:35

lagger.

Decker: 00:30:36

yeah, tell me, because, you know, I've had a rice lager before, but what makes using the wild rice different from I guess I, or even the

bobby: 00:30:44

or the smoke.

Decker: 00:30:45

uh, what's making it different?

Clint: 00:30:48

So wild rice beers is something that I learned from Kirby.

Clint: 00:30:51

He made one at Capital.

Clint: 00:30:52

Um, and then we made some on the pilot system, I think when I was at Wisconsin Bri Company, and that was a pretty like, mind blowing experience.

Clint: 00:31:01

rice is, is so different from regular rice or like a white rice or jasmine rice or whatever you might use to make your standard rice lager.

Clint: 00:31:11

It has a very distinctive, nutty, fruity flavor, like almost like blue to me.

Clint: 00:31:16

It tastes like blueberry or other people describe it as tasting, like cotton candy.

Clint: 00:31:21

it's not like a, it's a pretty pronounced flavor.

Clint: 00:31:26

So.

Clint: 00:31:27

Yeah, I don't consider it even like if you're trying to make a rice lager and you want to u and you're like, I could sub in wild rice, don't do that.

Clint: 00:31:33

That's not gonna get the same thing.

Clint: 00:31:36

So in a, and it seems to really pop out more in lager beer.

Clint: 00:31:40

So we, I've made a couple of wild rice laggers and this idea actually came from, had, we like to use the Pilot brewing system as a kind of fundraising tool for charities.

Clint: 00:31:50

So we will donate a private brew day and an auction.

Clint: 00:31:54

proceeds go to charity, where somebody gets to come in, design a beer with me and, and brew in the pilot system.

Clint: 00:31:58

So this beer is actually born out of one of those uh, somebody had won one of those packages and then we kind of got to talking about what we wanted to do and he was kind of throwing a lot of stuff out there.

Clint: 00:32:12

And then I, in, in the midst of that, I started piecing together like, oh, well he wants something that's like a little bit crazy.

Clint: 00:32:19

Well, wild rice is fun.

Clint: 00:32:21

And then the smoke idea came into my head and it was like, well smoke.

Clint: 00:32:25

I've never done a smoked wild rice beer.

Clint: 00:32:26

That could be cool.

Clint: 00:32:28

then the thought was to use cherrywood smoke because, or Cherrywood smoke malt, because that cherrywood smoke malt is like a fruitier smokey character.

Clint: 00:32:36

And that plays really well with that blueberry note in the wild rice.

Clint: 00:32:39

So it's a, as smoked laggers go, it's a pretty subtle smoke.

Clint: 00:32:43

It's only like 10% of the grist, which is.

Clint: 00:32:45

Pretty low for smoked malt.

Clint: 00:32:47

So it's a subtle smokiness that sometimes you, you, you can't really even pick out if is like, is it smoke or is that sulfur?

Clint: 00:32:55

It's, it can be hard to tell 'cause it's, the smoke is not super pronounced, but that fruitiness from the smoke does blend with the fruitiness from the wild rice in a way that is just really interesting and unique.

Clint: 00:33:05

And think it's a fun showcase of how, of maybe like making lagger beer in a way that isn't as traditional.

Clint: 00:33:13

still isn't taking a step into using like crazy adjuncts.

Clint: 00:33:17

It's still something that is generally, you consider a kind of traditional ingredient and getting a a, a pretty out there and unique result in a locker pa pill lager package that is drinkable, refreshing.

Decker: 00:33:33

Yeah, we're trying to figure out if, like, I guess I've, I've never, I'm a home brewer.

Decker: 00:33:38

I've only done a few batches.

Decker: 00:33:39

I'm not a super, you know, brewer or anything.

Decker: 00:33:42

But I was trying to figure out like, what, how much percentage do you use of that wild rice in your grist to, uh, well, I guess like what are the percentages?

Decker: 00:33:53

What are you using beyond just the wild rice?

Clint: 00:33:56

So that beer specifically, I think is just smoke Malt and Wild Rice.

Clint: 00:34:02

rice, I think is 10 to 15%, and then 10% smoke, Walt smoke malt.

Clint: 00:34:06

And then the rest is kind of our house pills or malt that we use for most things.

Clint: 00:34:12

The,

bobby: 00:34:13

And it's raw.

bobby: 00:34:14

This rice is raw.

Clint: 00:34:15

cereal mash it.

Clint: 00:34:18

and the,

bobby: 00:34:18

Okay.

bobby: 00:34:19

Yeah,

Clint: 00:34:19

I've learned through the years is that it likes to absorb a lot of water.

Clint: 00:34:23

So our, when we

bobby: 00:34:25

yeah,

Clint: 00:34:27

The liquor to gris ratio we have to use to make sure it doesn't start sticking, can pump around nicely is like seven to

bobby: 00:34:33

yeah.

Clint: 00:34:35

yeah, as Bobby can

bobby: 00:34:36

Oh my God.

Clint: 00:34:37

very thin any sort of mash.

bobby: 00:34:40

Like three times.

Clint: 00:34:41

it, it

bobby: 00:34:41

Oh man.

Clint: 00:34:42

all that

bobby: 00:34:43

Woo.

Clint: 00:34:43

and turns into a mush

bobby: 00:34:45

Put

Clint: 00:34:45

if you don't go,

bobby: 00:34:46

downstairs.

Clint: 00:34:47

that thin with it.

Clint: 00:34:48

So you have to serial match it, which is in itself, you know, a whole process, some extra stuff.

bobby: 00:34:54

Well explain that a little bit.

bobby: 00:34:55

So you're, how do you do your cereal mash?

Clint: 00:34:57

we, we actually will mill the rice.

Clint: 00:34:59

I find that it does hydrate better if you can kind of crack it open, which is tough because that stuff is like so hard when it's raw like that.

Clint: 00:35:07

It, it actually

bobby: 00:35:07

Yeah,

Clint: 00:35:08

sand when you mill it, it looks like it's made a glass or like silica.

bobby: 00:35:13

I heard a brewer tell or say a trick on another where you, you mix that with some,

bobby: 00:35:21

like 50 50 as you run it through the mill.

bobby: 00:35:23

I didn't know why, but do you know why he said to do that?

bobby: 00:35:27

Some.

Clint: 00:35:28

actually run it, we have a little home brew mill that we use, so we run through that because it's

bobby: 00:35:32

Oh, okay.

bobby: 00:35:33

Yeah,

Clint: 00:35:34

grains are also long and skinny, so you need a really tight mill gap, like a, a mill gap that would be way

bobby: 00:35:40

yeah,

Clint: 00:35:41

barley.

Clint: 00:35:41

You would just create

bobby: 00:35:42

yeah.

Clint: 00:35:43

so

bobby: 00:35:43

Yeah.

Clint: 00:35:44

adjust

bobby: 00:35:44

Fair.

Clint: 00:35:45

gap and honestly, like it's hard enough that.

Clint: 00:35:48

gonna destroy a mill, I'd rather destroy the home brew mill and not our big expensive

bobby: 00:35:53

Fair enough.

Clint: 00:35:54

part of why I run it through the home brew mill as

bobby: 00:35:56

Yep.

Clint: 00:35:57

Um,

bobby: 00:35:58

Yep.

Clint: 00:35:58

we'll mash that in separately from the main mash with a little bit of barley in there as well.

Clint: 00:36:02

So we get some enzyme action.

Clint: 00:36:04

Run it through your kind of normal mash steps.

Clint: 00:36:06

Beta amylase, alpha amylase, it up to 180.

Clint: 00:36:10

That's about when the starch gelatinize, which is the whole purpose.

bobby: 00:36:15

But 85 90 C. 85 C. Yep.

bobby: 00:36:17

Mm-hmm.

Clint: 00:36:18

minutes.

Clint: 00:36:18

'cause ever made wild rice at home, you know that usually they're like, you gotta boil it for an hour for it to be done.

Clint: 00:36:24

You know?

Clint: 00:36:25

So it takes some boiling to kind of break things up, and then we just pump it into the, to the, the main mash and then use that as a kind of a, like a decoction, a temperature step up to ramp up to a different, a different step

bobby: 00:36:37

Right.

bobby: 00:36:39

And then, and then once you've gone through the gelatinization of it, then that recombines with your, your main mash and those enzymes take it from.

Clint: 00:36:47

Yep.

bobby: 00:36:48

They break it down.

bobby: 00:36:49

Yeah.

bobby: 00:36:49

And, and, and I, I was told by Charlie Bamforth, uh, how Gelatinization works is like that extension cord that someone messes, it just completely wadded up in the back of your truck.

bobby: 00:36:59

He's like, you gotta, the gelatinization process is just uncoiling that cord and, then, and then let your enzymes go at it from there.

Clint: 00:37:07

use the

bobby: 00:37:07

Yeah.

Clint: 00:37:08

cord if it's all balled up.

Clint: 00:37:09

Right.

bobby: 00:37:11

Right.

Clint: 00:37:11

a great analogy.

bobby: 00:37:15

Yeah.

bobby: 00:37:15

Charlie's awesome.

Decker: 00:37:16

um, we've loved having you on this, uh, on the podcast talking about all things lager and, uh, working draft beer down in Madison.

Decker: 00:37:26

tap room.

Clint: 00:37:26

Thank you.

Decker: 00:37:27

before we go.

Decker: 00:37:28

There's something that we've been doing with, uh, with our guests Gary started it, I believe so we will continue it.

Decker: 00:37:35

But let's say you've been wrongly, obviously wrongly convicted of a crime that carries the capital punishment, and, uh, you are on death row and you now have a death row.

Decker: 00:37:46

Beer flight.

Decker: 00:37:47

What is your, uh, the last, how many are on a flight at your place?

Decker: 00:37:51

Five.

Decker: 00:37:52

Four.

Decker: 00:37:53

Four, okay.

Decker: 00:37:54

So what are your, your final four beers in your, on your death row?

Clint: 00:38:01

Pilsner Cal for sure.

Clint: 00:38:03

I always say that's my desert Island beer.

bobby: 00:38:06

let me ask, are, are you down for it having a hint of butter?

Clint: 00:38:09

like it.

Clint: 00:38:10

It's a

bobby: 00:38:10

I'm, I'm with you.

Clint: 00:38:11

I

bobby: 00:38:12

I'm with you.

Clint: 00:38:13

Um,

Decker: 00:38:14

That's the nerdiest thing I think we've said in this podcast, by the way.

Clint: 00:38:20

And then I think I'd have to probably go German pills, maybe do like uh, Inger or Bit burger there.

Clint: 00:38:28

And then maybe Lanker La Pelli

Clint: 00:38:34

and we'll finish it out with Mondex.

Clint: 00:38:38

Doppel B.

Decker: 00:38:40

Wow.

bobby: 00:38:41

Uh, that I've not had, but I, but I know enough about the brewery and I, it's my favorite style, so,

Clint: 00:38:49

Like Woodman's usually carries it.

Clint: 00:38:52

It's a great

bobby: 00:38:53

yeah.

bobby: 00:38:54

I'm gonna seek that one out.

Decker: 00:38:56

Tastes like raisin bread.

Clint: 00:38:58

Yep.

bobby: 00:39:00

All right.

bobby: 00:39:00

Before we, before we close up though, speaking of lagers, can we find you at our I west coast?

bobby: 00:39:05

IPA festival coming up?

Clint: 00:39:08

schedule and.

Clint: 00:39:10

You know, that's

bobby: 00:39:11

Yeah,

Clint: 00:39:11

we're, because we're so focused on kind of our home market, when I, when I pitch these like Fox Valley

bobby: 00:39:17

yeah,

Clint: 00:39:18

people, everyone's like, if you're gonna do it, you can go.

Clint: 00:39:21

If you got time to do it, you can go.

Clint: 00:39:23

I'm not gonna

bobby: 00:39:23

yeah,

Clint: 00:39:23

it.

Clint: 00:39:24

We

bobby: 00:39:24

yeah.

bobby: 00:39:25

I gotcha.

bobby: 00:39:26

No pressure.

bobby: 00:39:27

No pressure.

bobby: 00:39:28

We're, we're gonna, we're gonna try to grow this each year.

bobby: 00:39:30

It, it's sort of an invitation.

bobby: 00:39:31

We're trying to be the, rep, the best representation of the style that we can be here in Wisconsin.

bobby: 00:39:37

So we're inviting all the, all the brewers that have 'em, have them, a lot of 'em have been responding and say, ah, I got some haes.

bobby: 00:39:43

Kinda bring those instead.

bobby: 00:39:43

No.

Clint: 00:39:44

Yeah.

bobby: 00:39:44

Did you not read the title of the event?

Decker: 00:39:46

first I've

bobby: 00:39:47

No.

bobby: 00:39:49

Oh yeah.

bobby: 00:39:49

You're, it's the first anyone that's heard, because I know this won't air until it's been announced.

bobby: 00:39:54

We're, we're announcing it on four 20 and yeah, the price is gonna be $54 and 70 cents.

bobby: 00:40:02

5 47. Well, no, it's, it's our, it's our 5 47 day, uh, evolved into a, an invitational.

Decker: 00:40:11

I look forward to being there for that as

bobby: 00:40:13

Yep.

Clint: 00:40:13

I can swing it, I mean, I

bobby: 00:40:14

Yeah.

Clint: 00:40:15

to, juggling the circus, you know.

bobby: 00:40:19

I, I get it.

bobby: 00:40:20

Nope.

bobby: 00:40:21

No apologies.

bobby: 00:40:22

Door.

bobby: 00:40:23

The invitation's always open.

Clint: 00:40:24

me.

Decker: 00:40:26

That's

bobby: 00:40:26

Yeah.

Decker: 00:40:27

this episode of Respecting the Beer.

Decker: 00:40:28

The show is produced by David Kalsow with music by Sarah Lynn Huss.

Decker: 00:40:32

Be sure to join us, join the Facebook group to connect between episodes and support the show over on Patreon, where you can get uncut episodes, access to especially brewed beer and more.

Decker: 00:40:43

Until next time, please remember to respect the beer.