Episode 60
How a Brewery Prepares for Festival Season
Timing is everything for a brewery. Bobby, Allison, and Joel give Gary the low down on how McFleshman's prepares for summer and fall festivals, making sure they have the right beer for the right day. All while preparing to expand the brew room and what's on tap!
PATREON
Support the show! Get episodes 1 week early and bonus merch: patreon.com/respectingthebeerpodcast
FACEBOOK GROUP
Got a question about beer or just want to get social? Join the RtB Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/respectingthebeer
Got a question? Email us at respectingthebeer@gmail.com
--
TIMELINE
00:00 Let's Talk Beer Festivals
03:08 Challenges of Brewing Seasonal Beers
04:36 The Importance of Lagering
09:52 Balancing Supply and Demand
17:18 Upcoming Events and Final Thoughts
17:56 McFleshman's Bday and 547 Day Celebrations
19:17 Supplying the 547 Dealer
20:28 Recognizing Regulars and Community Support
24:03 Challenges in Beer Production and Scheduling
27:42 Belgian Beers and Quick Turnarounds
29:35 Future Expansion: Beer and Building
33:41 Join the Patreon!
--
CREDITS
Hosts:
Music by Sarah Lynn Huss
Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow
Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co
Transcript
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Respecting the Beer.
Gary Arndt:My name is Gary Arndt and we got the gang alt here Today we have with us the man who is currently applying to NASA for a sample of lunar regolith from the Apollo mission so he can make the world's first hazy IPA out of moon dust.
Gary Arndt:Mr. Bobby Fleshman.
Gary Arndt:How are you doing, sir?
Bobby Fleshman:Very well.
Bobby Fleshman:I'm in a battle for that with, uh, Sam Calzone from Dogfish Head though he'll probably get that right.
Gary Arndt:Do you know how much that would be worth?
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, I can imagine he'll probably spend it just for a pet project.
Gary Arndt:You got Amber, so that's, I do something
Bobby Fleshman:for now.
Gary Arndt:Also with us is the historian of Hops.
Gary Arndt:The man who legally got all of his children's birth certificates changed, so they were born at 5:47 AM Mr. Joel Hermanson.
Joel Hermansen:Wow.
Joel Hermansen:With the twins though, that would've been tough.
Gary Arndt:Well, there you have a one minute span.
Gary Arndt:I mean, I don't know how long the birth took, but
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:As, as being there, it was, there was a little more time involved there, and it wasn't 12 hours either, so Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:But three of three of the four.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:And also with us is a doctor.
Gary Arndt:Who, if she was the doctor, would've a tardis shaped like a beer barrel.
Gary Arndt:El McCoy Fleshman and
Allison Fleshman:Wimy Wibbly wobbly.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Gary Arndt:I dunno that, that one was a bit of a stretch.
Gary Arndt:Go team.
Gary Arndt:Um, so what we're gonna talk about today is, is kind of planning in a brewery.
Gary Arndt:So we're recording this on a holiday.
Gary Arndt:It's March 15th, the odds of March a day, we all celebrate.
Gary Arndt:And just on a personal note to everyone listening, we should remember to keep the spirit of the holiday true to what it is.
Gary Arndt:It's not about stabbing, it's about coming together to stab as a community.
Gary Arndt:Um, but we have many other holidays coming up.
Gary Arndt:We got 5 47 day.
Gary Arndt:Oh yes, we got Mile of Music.
Gary Arndt:You got October Fest.
Gary Arndt:You got Lagger Fest.
Gary Arndt:But this stuff just doesn't happen overnight.
Gary Arndt:You can't just like, oh, you know, tomorrow something's happening.
Gary Arndt:I'm gonna brew.
Gary Arndt:So let's start with how far ahead do you have to plan to know what you're gonna have ready when these events occur?
Joel Hermansen:Gary, before we get to that, can I just ask Bobby a quick question?
Joel Hermansen:Bobby, I need a keg of specialty beer that you haven't brewed yet next Tuesday.
Joel Hermansen:Is that possible?
Bobby Fleshman:Right.
Bobby Fleshman:That's common.
Bobby Fleshman:That's a good example of what we're asked in the tap room on occasion.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, I'm just gonna interrupt him now.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:' Allison Fleshman: cause I know his answer's gonna be crappy.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Um, so if you've ever seen the movie the best Christmas movie ever which is Nightmare before Christmas.
Bobby Fleshman:And so, oh, what about a
Joel Hermansen:Christmas story?
Allison Fleshman:It's fine, but I it's, it's in the top five, let's say.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:But there's a wonderful scene after they've done their wonderful Halloween celebration and the mayor comes the next day and he is like, we only have 365 days left until the next Halloween.
Allison Fleshman:That's Bobby after every single festival.
Allison Fleshman:It was, it was literally
Bobby Fleshman:me after Halloween before we owned the brewery.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh my God.
Bobby Fleshman:That was my whole life.
Bobby Fleshman:True.
Allison Fleshman:But it's true.
Allison Fleshman:So we start planning for So Mile of Music's one of our biggest festivals.
Allison Fleshman:It happens the first weekend in August.
Allison Fleshman:July 31st actually is the first day of Mile this year.
Allison Fleshman:And that feels weird.
Allison Fleshman:Wait, I know.
Allison Fleshman:But it's thankful because it doesn't, anyway, we're very happy that it's starting July 31st.
Allison Fleshman:But we started planning for that.
Allison Fleshman:Probably in October, actually.
Allison Fleshman:So
Bobby Fleshman:yeah, fortunately that one is lightweight in terms of planning execution.
Bobby Fleshman:It's the, it's the most difficult four days of our year, but, uh, the city does that and Willems marketing and, and all the people behind Milo music do that stuff.
Bobby Fleshman:But yeah, it brewing side is stressful.
Bobby Fleshman:But as far as out the way we prepare, mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:At the pub, we just gotta make sure we're ready.
Bobby Fleshman:Ready.
Bobby Fleshman:With glassware and staffing, there's not a ton that we have to do on the preparation side.
Bobby Fleshman:Well,
Allison Fleshman:we have to brew a lot of Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:On the, on the production side.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:That's exactly right.
Bobby Fleshman:Production side, it, it's not only, it's not only that, but the next.
Bobby Fleshman:A month after that, we are selling through our number one selling beer, which is October Fest.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:And, and that beer takes 20 to 25% of our entire capacity, just one flavor.
Bobby Fleshman:And put that in perspective, we make something like 80 flavors a year.
Bobby Fleshman:So one beer is 20 to 25%.
Bobby Fleshman:So I'm already, as I even talk about it, getting antsy because we should be putting our first batch in the tank in the next couple of weeks.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's where we are.
Bobby Fleshman:And then we're looking six months ahead already.
Bobby Fleshman:Why?
Gary Arndt:What is so special about Octoberfest that it takes up so much of your resources to make.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, traditionally it has, you have to logger it and if, if anyone's listened to this before, uh, you, you tend to logger up to 12 weeks of beer.
Bobby Fleshman:And so there, that's, so after you firm in a beer, you need to cold condition it.
Bobby Fleshman:And there are other a lager that is, and, and there are lots of reasons why we do this.
Bobby Fleshman:Some of it's historical.
Bobby Fleshman:Some of it might be marketing, some of it might be just what feels right.
Bobby Fleshman:But there are also scientific reasons why we wanna let lay a beer down like that for a gut, a good three months.
Bobby Fleshman:And so when you do the math and you only have so many tanks, you realize you need to do it several times over and quickly.
Bobby Fleshman:Your, your calendar year is consumed by a beer that you need that many turns.
Bobby Fleshman:We call it a turn in every tank, uh, of a batch.
Bobby Fleshman:So we'll, we'll dedicate one or two of our tanks from now until sometime in June or July.
Bobby Fleshman:To making that beer,
Allison Fleshman:and we have special lagering tanks that do this.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, so primary ferment in these upright tanks, which are the ones that people are probably, are really familiar with, what they've been in a brewery in the last 30 or 40 years.
Bobby Fleshman:These are the ones
Allison Fleshman:that are tall up, vertical up, and they have the cone things.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, on the bottom call 'em conical 'cause of that cone.
Bobby Fleshman:Lots of names that go by.
Bobby Fleshman:But basically you do that primary fermentation and when the yeas are essentially done, you send it over to a horizontal tank.
Bobby Fleshman:And if you've ever been in a lagering brewery, like these little ones that you might have heard of, Miller.
Bobby Fleshman:Budweiser, uh, Coors, Schitz, blats, all of these, these giant breweries from, from the past and present.
Bobby Fleshman:They're lager breweries and you've seen that on the tour.
Bobby Fleshman:These gigantic tanks that might be a quarter million gallons.
Bobby Fleshman:Those are lagering vessels and we still carry that tradition on here of lager production.
Bobby Fleshman:So we'll lay 'em down for several months in these tanks.
Bobby Fleshman:We don't have enough of 'em though, so we gotta really be logistical about how we plan from now till August for sure.
Gary Arndt:So why, why does Octoberfest take up so much as opposed to, say, pirates Cove and other loggers that you make?
Bobby Fleshman:Well, again, it, it, we, we make so much of it in a relatively short window of time.
Bobby Fleshman:It just, it, it just takes, and again, it, it's our number one selling beer.
Bobby Fleshman:So not only is our number one selling beer, but we have to produce it in such a short window.
Bobby Fleshman:So, so the brewery has to go into October Fest season.
Bobby Fleshman:It's not even like, uh, you know, it's not just a, a seasonal, it's our six month focus.
Bobby Fleshman:And and that's what happens.
Allison Fleshman:Are we brew maibach this year?
Bobby Fleshman:Unfortunately no.
Bobby Fleshman:My b Unless we, unless we kick it out of the pilot system.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Because again, this tank math before we started this, I was actually literally sketching on the screen in front of us the new, uh, expansion we're gonna add some tanks here and that's gonna free up capacity to make beers like maibach for sure.
Allison Fleshman:So the reason I ask about maibach is because I think, uh, Gary, your question, why octoberfest?
Allison Fleshman:I think people drink to the season and there's something about the fall season that winter hasn't set in yet.
Allison Fleshman:You're embracing the fact that you don't have many days left to be outside.
Allison Fleshman:And we have got a beautiful beer garden.
Allison Fleshman:Everyone wants to go out and celebrate that, uh, before they can't anymore when the the cold season sets in.
Allison Fleshman:But our bachs, we have bachs that we brew to each different season.
Allison Fleshman:And the maibach is one in which you're kind of coming out of winter and so you want to enjoy the beer garden.
Allison Fleshman:You wanna get outside.
Bobby Fleshman:and, this is a double-edged sword.
Bobby Fleshman:My B means may.
Bobby Fleshman:Yep.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's a double-edged sword.
Bobby Fleshman:October Fest, obviously October, people associate those with a month.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh.
Bobby Fleshman:It may be with three months if you're lucky, but they tend to move on.
Bobby Fleshman:So what that means is you can sell a lot of that product within the window that people associate it with, but after that window, you don't wanna have a stockpile that you gotta, you gotta get through for the next month season for which it wasn't made.
Bobby Fleshman:So
Allison Fleshman:we need an April Fest beer.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, so we've joked about our, one of our favorite beers around here is our Fest beer, which is really what a modern October Fest is in in Munich.
Bobby Fleshman:You won't find these amber October Fest like we drink here.
Bobby Fleshman:That's where October Fest used to be.
Bobby Fleshman:I mean, what, what, what it used to be.
Bobby Fleshman:And now we drink these lighter colored ones that are kind of a riff on a maibach actually.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, anyway, so where am I going with that?
Bobby Fleshman:Oh.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:So we, we thought, well, how do we, 'cause people want us to have it all year long, so we thought why not call our fest beer November Fest, when it's November, call it December Fest, when it's, make it a joke where we have a 12 month fest beer.
Bobby Fleshman:And I think we, it would do actually quite well and people might kind of get that joke, I should say, that, uh, there's the why and the how.
Bobby Fleshman:Why do we brew so much?
Bobby Fleshman:Well, it's, we live in lagger country of this October Fest.
Bobby Fleshman:We live in the state that.
Bobby Fleshman:That really lager brewing began in the, in the United States in earnest at the scale that we know, uh, today.
Bobby Fleshman:So this is people that drink laggers and they love octoberfest.
Bobby Fleshman:That's why we brew it.
Bobby Fleshman:How we brew it, as you've heard, come down to tank math and planning.
Bobby Fleshman:But our neighbors across the, the alley, the Appleton Beer Factory, have been on here a few times.
Bobby Fleshman:They have more room than we do, so we're, we're really affording them to expand.
Bobby Fleshman:The number of tanks they have.
Bobby Fleshman:And we're brewing a lot of this beer over there.
Bobby Fleshman:So tanks that are 3, 4, 5 times larger than the ones we have we brew into.
Bobby Fleshman:And, uh, able to meet that demand.
Bobby Fleshman:But again, you gotta thread that needle.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, you wanna have just enough, but not too much after October is red over.
Bobby Fleshman:Same with my b or any of these other types of seasonals.
Allison Fleshman:To take a step back a little bit.
Allison Fleshman:I think why is planning such a big part, um, is because each beer has to be in the tank at diff for a different length of time.
Allison Fleshman:And from a business perspective, as soon as a tank is empty, we're losing revenue.
Allison Fleshman:And so, 'cause we've got the infrastructure and if we're not making beer ferment, or if the yeast aren't fermenting the beer, 'cause we don't make beer, the yeast do then we're losing an opportunity to have a beer ready when it needs to be.
Allison Fleshman:Um,
Bobby Fleshman:That symbiosis with yeast is funny because I'm, I am their servant.
Bobby Fleshman:I get here every day at five in the morning and attend to the yeast.
Bobby Fleshman:But then after all of this is done, they tend to go often either to cattle, we feed 'em to cattle, or we, or we dump 'em down the drain.
Bobby Fleshman:So they live a spoiled life until they don't.
Bobby Fleshman:So, so that's, that's sort of the symbiosis that we have here with our yeast.
Bobby Fleshman:For sure.
Bobby Fleshman:Even the Belgians, if you go to, uh, Belgium and see where they, where they ferment, they, they're probably some of the most liter, literally spiritual, the monks are spiritual about the production of beer.
Bobby Fleshman:They have science saying to be quiet, respect the or no
Allison Fleshman:respect, the
Bobby Fleshman:use beer fermenting silence.
Bobby Fleshman:It's all in Flemish.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But, but in any case, yeah, people around the world worship the, the yeast for, for what they're doing.
Joel Hermansen:Do you have any stories of your October Fest prep where.
Joel Hermansen:You brewed way too much or you ended up with, you were on, on, on the shorter side, or have you been able to thread that needle every year that, that, that you've dealt with it?
Joel Hermansen:Um,
Bobby Fleshman:The first year we opened, we didn't even get one in the tank, so that was embarrassing.
Bobby Fleshman:I mean, I knew we were going to have to make an October fest, and I hope that it would be a popular seasonal.
Bobby Fleshman:It turns out Isaac.
Bobby Fleshman:As it, uh, turns out it's our number one, uh, that was embarrassing.
Bobby Fleshman:So we turned it around on year two.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, brewed a good amount, but it was embarrassingly small amount.
Bobby Fleshman:I'm gonna interject.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Every, I would say it's about
Bobby Fleshman:we double it every year.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:And then we don't but it's, I wanna say it's middle of February 'cause you've already done this to me.
Allison Fleshman:I'll be in the morning about 6:00 AM Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:He comes back from his yeast check, um, 'cause he checks the brewery every morning.
Allison Fleshman:So I'm sitting there on the couch with my coffee.
Allison Fleshman:He walks in and he goes, how much octoberfest should we brew?
Allison Fleshman:I'm like, how the hell should I know?
Allison Fleshman:He agree.
Allison Fleshman:Pull up the crystal ball.
Allison Fleshman:He's well, and he brings up this entire data sheet where he's got like these differential equations to solve the most complex problem of like, how do you thread that needle?
Allison Fleshman:And I'm like, I have no idea.
Allison Fleshman:People are impossible.
Allison Fleshman:I can
Joel Hermansen:completely see this story.
Joel Hermansen:It's the most ridiculous thing.
Allison Fleshman:And I was like, dude, I'm just, give me another cup of coffee and then I'll.
Allison Fleshman:I'll entertain you for just a minute and talk about what, this is why I love with not owning a
Bobby Fleshman:brewery because of all of these variables.
Bobby Fleshman:It's, it's impossible.
Bobby Fleshman:It's an endless challenge.
Bobby Fleshman:You know what people drink the number of breweries in competition and on the supply chain, it just goes on and on and on and on.
Allison Fleshman:It's a hard answer, I should say to to pinpoint.
Allison Fleshman:'cause we don't know exactly how we have been
Bobby Fleshman:doubling year after year.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But now we're growing at about 15 to 30%, somewhere in that range every year on Octoberfest.
Bobby Fleshman:We, I kind of tend to throttle, I wanna throttle it this year for a couple of reasons that is decreased slightly because I want to build the demand up, but I also want to put a little more emphasis on our fest beer.
Bobby Fleshman:'cause I think that is an extremely popular beer.
Bobby Fleshman:And I think there's, there's a market finally that we've helped open for what is the modern.
Bobby Fleshman:Version of October Fest.
Gary Arndt:That beer is glorious, by the way.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:I mean, you have October Fest on tap right now, right?
Gary Arndt:We
Bobby Fleshman:do.
Bobby Fleshman:And, and that it seems like we have a lot.
Bobby Fleshman:So we had some October because we're selling through it.
Bobby Fleshman:But you know, we did pretty well.
Bobby Fleshman:We, we made something like, uh, 200, let's just say it this way, something like 300 kegs of beer, let's say that, that's about what we made.
Bobby Fleshman:And then we only ended up about 10 sh 10 long of our estimate.
Bobby Fleshman:So I'll take it.
Bobby Fleshman:So in, in one.
Bobby Fleshman:So we sell those 10 kegs across our bar and finish.
Bobby Fleshman:So we, we did really well there.
Bobby Fleshman:I probably would rather run out though next year for a number of reasons.
Bobby Fleshman:Like I said before, people think of October Fest as an October beer, and, and the other reason is just to free.
Bobby Fleshman:Up another line because we have too many beers, and our tapper manager is really annoyed with me sometimes.
Bobby Fleshman:We give him too many things to sell.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:So, yeah, we're gonna try to, he does a great job
Allison Fleshman:though.
Allison Fleshman:He's, um, constantly putting up with your, like, let's do this beer.
Allison Fleshman:Let's do that beer.
Allison Fleshman:And he's like, I still have these beers that I need to sell.
Allison Fleshman:It cuts
Bobby Fleshman:two ways.
Bobby Fleshman:He'll get up in the morning and say, Hey, let's fruit this, or let's blend that, or let he, he loves to mess around too.
Allison Fleshman:Y'all are a good pair.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Gary Arndt:So the other, oh, go ahead.
Gary Arndt:Oh, which is worse?
Gary Arndt:Too much or too little?
Gary Arndt:Oh.
Gary Arndt:Supply demand, I'm gonna say, would you have to, to air in one direction or the other?
Gary Arndt:Well,
Bobby Fleshman:yes.
Bobby Fleshman:If you have too much, then you have, what you've inadvertently done is exploited the economy of scale, right?
Bobby Fleshman:And that means that you had less input, cost input on each of those kegs.
Bobby Fleshman:If you have too little, it means you can move on to the next.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, product that's more relevant to the season.
Bobby Fleshman:So again, that's, that's a tough question to answer.
Bobby Fleshman:You would like, like to run out, you like your last pint to be sold on the street at Appleton's, October Fest on the 20, say 7th of September, and that'd be the end of it.
Bobby Fleshman:That would be ideal if we could do that math, but so on a
Allison Fleshman:smaller scale we have a beer that you may have heard of.
Allison Fleshman:It's called 5 4 7.
Allison Fleshman:When we don't have,
Bobby Fleshman:also gives me anxiety one ready
Allison Fleshman:because we have someone who's on staff as the demand coordinator for 5 4 7.
Allison Fleshman:We've had it to where we've run out in the tap room before it's ready from the tank.
Allison Fleshman:And there's kind of been, um, I mean
Bobby Fleshman:There's been judgment,
Allison Fleshman:I, well, I would say true rebellion between that and Public House, which is an uprising almost.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:This is the, uh, this is St. Patrick's Day weekend, the I of March, right.
Bobby Fleshman:Today or.
Bobby Fleshman:Not today.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Today.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And then
Allison Fleshman:St. Pat's is on two days.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Two days from now.
Bobby Fleshman:So anyway, bringing that up because of Public House Pint or Irish Stout is the same way.
Bobby Fleshman:That's right.
Bobby Fleshman:We started
Allison Fleshman:brewing that.
Allison Fleshman:What?
Bobby Fleshman:First it was our number two beer that we ever
Allison Fleshman:made.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:But we, I think it was, it was in January where we were starting planning exactly when and how we were gonna get the stouts ready.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And we brewed a lot of that.
Bobby Fleshman:For, you
Joel Hermansen:know, we, we actually might need to add another fest next year because if, if Christophe's brother Andreas comes back from Germany to Wisconsin again, I think he drank in the two weeks he was here.
Joel Hermansen:I think he drank 13 barrels of fest beer.
Allison Fleshman:Oh my gosh.
Joel Hermansen:He thought that was the greatest beer.
Joel Hermansen:Ever.
Joel Hermansen:That's quite an honor.
Joel Hermansen:So we, that might have to factor into your supply.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:Conversation people at Oh, go ahead.
Joel Hermansen:It was prolific.
Bobby Fleshman:Well, and, and what's funny is we're going through, it's funny, we're bringing both of these beers up 5 47 and octoberfest, because what we've done is we've created a beer.
Bobby Fleshman:To help balance the demand of both of those.
Bobby Fleshman:In the case of October Fest, it's Fest beer also, because we think that this market needs to be introduced to the blonde version of an October Fest.
Allison Fleshman:It's also lower in alcohol, which is fast.
Allison Fleshman:But
Bobby Fleshman:in the case of 5 47, yes, we've, we've reached, we've made todo, which is less alcohol as people ask for, and it's inspired by 5 47 with a modern twist.
Bobby Fleshman:And what's happened is we, we thought we were gonna help.
Bobby Fleshman:With our demands on production with both of those beers, and it hasn't changed the demand of the beer that they were made to suppress the demand of.
Bobby Fleshman:So now we have another beer that's rising in demand to go alongside each of them.
Bobby Fleshman:Back to the tank math, back to this expansion, back to all of these complexities of running the whole thing.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:It never ends.
Bobby Fleshman:How does it roll together?
Bobby Fleshman:And we're talking about one event.
Bobby Fleshman:Because I think it's worth talking about it a lot, October Fest, but as you guys mentioned, there's 5 47 days coming up and.
Bobby Fleshman:Just a few months, honestly.
Bobby Fleshman:And that's when is
Allison Fleshman:5, 4, 7 day.
Allison Fleshman:We should probably do that.
Allison Fleshman:We're,
Bobby Fleshman:we're actually gonna have it on the 28th of June this year.
Bobby Fleshman:28th of June.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:It doesn't work out.
Bobby Fleshman:So normally we'd like to riff on the June 16th theme.
Joel Hermansen:Well, because May 47th.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:5, 4, 7.
Bobby Fleshman:But that's okay.
Bobby Fleshman:I think, I think the scheduling made more sense.
Bobby Fleshman:People like
Allison Fleshman:to drink on a Saturday or a Friday.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:We're going to, to have our birthday on the 21st.
Bobby Fleshman:That coincides with the pride event in Appleton.
Bobby Fleshman:That day, we're gonna have one hell of a party on the 21st.
Bobby Fleshman:And that's June 21st.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, June 21st.
Bobby Fleshman:And we're going to be advertising to what we think is a very San Francisco centric community that day that might wanna come back in seven days after to party with us on 5 47 day woo.
Bobby Fleshman:Because that's kind of what 5 47 celebrates.
Bobby Fleshman:It really celebrates that beer, but also sort of that San Francisco slant to our brand.
Gary Arndt:Okay.
Gary Arndt:I I have to ask you, what is a. San Francisco centric community in Appleton, Wisconsin.
Gary Arndt:I'm speaking
Bobby Fleshman:about the pride community and, and how Harvey Milk and, and how there's so much.
Bobby Fleshman:Are they having a
Gary Arndt:thing here?
Bobby Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:There's a giant, uh, pride event being planned for Jones Park where the official beer at.
Bobby Fleshman:So we'll be pouring down there on our birthday, having the after party to that event at the brewery on our birthday.
Bobby Fleshman:It's gonna be a whole thing.
Bobby Fleshman:We're expecting to have our, one of our biggest days of all time on June 21st, so we thought, okay, let's not do 5 47 day.
Bobby Fleshman:That day or even the day before, because we need to ramp everything up for this one event.
Bobby Fleshman:And then seven days later, we'll come back after licking our wounds and have 5 47 day
Allison Fleshman:and 5 4 7 day.
Allison Fleshman:We've had this fun, uh, activity where we tie dye t-shirts.
Allison Fleshman:Uh, so we have 5, 4, 7 t-shirts, which you can tie d yourself.
Allison Fleshman:We, yeah.
Allison Fleshman:And we're
Bobby Fleshman:planning to maybe run some, for pride events.
Bobby Fleshman:So a pre tie-dyed.
Allison Fleshman:Cool.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:And there's also a, uh, I don't know if you guys knew this, but there's also a 5 47 day every Wednesday.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, there is, there is, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Which we have to brew for every week.
Bobby Fleshman:I think about that as a weekly event.
Bobby Fleshman:We have to make sure we meet demand on.
Joel Hermansen:So if you're listening and you've not come to a 5 47 event on a Wednesday, we'd love to have you also at next year's 5 47 or in, in two months, whatever.
Joel Hermansen:We're gonna have a free throw contest for people who have drank at least 3, 547.
Allison Fleshman:Oh my.
Bobby Fleshman:That's, that's good TikTok,
Allison Fleshman:Is this with the Beanie Babies?
Joel Hermansen:No, no, no.
Joel Hermansen:We're gonna get a basketball hoop back here.
Joel Hermansen:We're Oh, I was thinking the little, Nope.
Joel Hermansen:Bag toss.
Joel Hermansen:Nope.
Joel Hermansen:It's gonna be a legit, yeah, we'll get a baseline.
Joel Hermansen:People will come in, shoot five free throws, see how they do initially, and then after 3, 5 40 sevens and we're gonna, I've got Eric Eastman on it.
Bobby Fleshman:I proposed dunk tank with Joel being the one on
Joel Hermansen:Sure.
Bobby Fleshman:In the dunk tank.
Joel Hermansen:We could totally do that.
Joel Hermansen:Is the volume of the water gonna be five for
Gary Arndt:I will write a check for $1000 for unlimited throws of a baseball.
Gary Arndt:Uh, I,
Bobby Fleshman:it's on the record.
Joel Hermansen:I'll absolute I will absolutely do that,
Gary Arndt:Except that if it was a tank of 5 47, you'd probably like it, so,
Bobby Fleshman:Right.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:We, we, we have, it's funny, we have one, uh, rj uh.
Bobby Fleshman:Rj, what's his name?
Bobby Fleshman:Hayward.
Bobby Fleshman:Hayward.
Bobby Fleshman:He's our, other than Joel, he's also one of our.
Allison Fleshman:He's another 5 4 7 Ambassador,
Bobby Fleshman:5 47 ambassador.
Bobby Fleshman:I, I've done the math and he drinks one tank a year himself of 5 47.
Allison Fleshman:He's so great.
Bobby Fleshman:It's it's a lot.
Bobby Fleshman:It's a lot.
Bobby Fleshman:And I've, I've gone on record of saying, I don't know if I'm proud or embarrassed of that fact, but he is, uh, he'll text me like I'm a drug dealer and say, Hey, you got a 5 47 for me.
Bobby Fleshman:And I meet him in the alley.
Bobby Fleshman:With a keg of it every You do not, that's not how it goes.
Bobby Fleshman:I literally, literally have, sometimes he comes to the front and gets a couple of pints beforehand, but RJ iss amazing.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, he's a great, he's a great supporter from day one.
Bobby Fleshman:He sold us all the steel in our building.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:And that's how I met him.
Bobby Fleshman:We, I was welding this place up and anyway, he was the steel salesman and he became, uh, the biggest 5 47 fan until we met Joel.
Allison Fleshman:It is really cool how the, a lot of the contractors that we've worked with over the years this becomes like their, their tap room second home.
Allison Fleshman:It's kind of nice.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Joel Hermansen:Well, when they come here, you have to come again.
Joel Hermansen:Absolutely.
Joel Hermansen:Like I've never, I don't think there's anyone that's ever come here once, unless they were traveling through to back
Bobby Fleshman:up what you said.
Bobby Fleshman:I don't think, if you haven't been here on a Wednesday, you haven't been here.
Bobby Fleshman:People always say that they, oh yeah, I've been to your place and nine times outta 10.
Bobby Fleshman:They mean they've been here during Mile of Music, which is great.
Bobby Fleshman:Mile of Music is a, is fantastic.
Bobby Fleshman:It's so much energy.
Bobby Fleshman:But you haven't, you haven't met us.
Bobby Fleshman:You haven't seen who we are.
Bobby Fleshman:You don't know what,
Allison Fleshman:of course we're open other days other than Wednesday as say, you know, coming in time.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah, I'm saying.
Allison Fleshman:I didn't know
Bobby Fleshman:that.
Bobby Fleshman:I, I would say for sure come those other days of the week.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:But, but you need to be introduced to the Wednesday crowd to really get
Allison Fleshman:It's a good ride.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:It's, it's definitely that pub club that we talked about a few times plus the so, and you get to meet Gary.
Joel Hermansen:That's true.
Joel Hermansen:And Gary's, I mean, if you've listened to this podcast and you are sitting there wondering, I wonder what Gary's like in person.
Joel Hermansen:Norm, he's kind of like Wednesday norm.
Gary Arndt:It's true.
Gary Arndt:He's very disappointing.
Gary Arndt:That you just, I, if you're looking for, for that, I wouldn't bother.
Gary Arndt:Just, you were identified
Bobby Fleshman:recently by your voice in public, right?
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Dave:That's so
Gary Arndt:cool.
Gary Arndt:So that, well, so on the 13th I did a, I do these TV spots around the country for like morning shows and stuff.
Joel Hermansen:TV star too.
Joel Hermansen:Unbelievable, right?
Gary Arndt:I was doing this thing for the, the Fox Morning Show in Seattle and the, so you get on Zoom like ahead of time.
Gary Arndt:And the woman who handles it was like a fan of the show, and she was like, oh my gosh, I, this is so amazing.
Gary Arndt:Listening to your voice and everything.
Gary Arndt:I was like, okay, yeah, I just listened to the episode on Emperor Claudius, and that was so great.
Gary Arndt:It's like, okay, let, and we were talking about the lunar eclipse.
Allison Fleshman:Oh.
Allison Fleshman:Which was amazing.
Allison Fleshman:Yes, it was.
Allison Fleshman:Wasn't it gorgeous?
Gary Arndt:We had like perfect.
Gary Arndt:We did.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:Again, you can, you can meet the voice every Wednesday.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah,
Bobby Fleshman:every one of them, Joel.
Bobby Fleshman:Joel, you've also been, I don't know if you've been recognized like that, but people do recognize your voice when they're in the tap room and they Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:From this podcast.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And I, I, and I've had people say that the 5 47 guy, they like him when you're on the, on the show, they don't know your name half the time.
Bobby Fleshman:They just say The 5 47 guy.
Bobby Fleshman:But
Joel Hermansen:Right.
Joel Hermansen:I've actually been recognized as far away as Madison, um, which
Bobby Fleshman:for people listening, that's about a hundred miles from where we're sitting.
Joel Hermansen:Yeah.
Joel Hermansen:I have a hundred mile.
Joel Hermansen:Uh, radius, I guess.
Joel Hermansen:I was also recognized at the donut shop this morning too.
Joel Hermansen:They knew me by name, which
Bobby Fleshman:has nothing to do with the podcast.
Bobby Fleshman:Anything, your
Joel Hermansen:dedication to the donuts.
Joel Hermansen:I can't figure out if this is a point of pride or shame, but these donuts are amazing.
Joel Hermansen:Going back to the
Gary Arndt:scheduling thing to keep this podcast on track.
Gary Arndt:Yeah,
Bobby Fleshman:yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:That's the two big ones we mentioned, but there are many others.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:If, if Octoberfest is, I don't know if, I wouldn't say it's the most difficult, but it takes up a lot of resources.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:In terms of time and quantity.
Gary Arndt:So those are kind of, I guess, the two variables you have to.
Gary Arndt:To look at what are, what are some of the easier ones in terms of turnaround?
Gary Arndt:Yeah, because I know you got barrel age stuff.
Gary Arndt:Yeah.
Gary Arndt:You gotta time that out.
Gary Arndt:Those are
Bobby Fleshman:tremendous.
Bobby Fleshman:Two years on some of those, if not three.
Bobby Fleshman:yeah, those are different animals altogether.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, the ones, so when you're building a business plan and you start to run the math, I call it tank hours, tank weeks, basically look how, look how much you can make, how long they can occupy, and how much liquid will be produced in the end.
Bobby Fleshman:You gotta balance these ridiculous beers with.
Bobby Fleshman:Fast turning ones.
Bobby Fleshman:So we knew from the beginning that we were going to be associated with Irish beers.
Bobby Fleshman:And Irish beers are associated with hydrogenation.
Bobby Fleshman:They're nitro beers.
Bobby Fleshman:So we knew we were gonna make a stout, and eventually we started making a blonde and then a red, and they were all nitro, but.
Bobby Fleshman:We did that for the brand's sake, but we also did it for production's sake, because we can turn an Irish stout around in seven or eight days.
Bobby Fleshman:It's, it's a whole different process to do an Irish beer as opposed to a German lager for sure.
Bobby Fleshman:But even, even like an ale or an IPA, like an English ale or, or an IPA, those take much longer than an Irish show.
Bobby Fleshman:They're not hop centric.
Bobby Fleshman:The yeast are very quick at what they do.
Bobby Fleshman:You don't carbonate them, you hydrogenate, which is an entirely different process.
Bobby Fleshman:There's no nitrogen produced by yeast, so you can, that's exogenous.
Bobby Fleshman:You just inject it.
Bobby Fleshman:But yeah, so that's one.
Bobby Fleshman:The other side is on that, you can say that that's our English slash Irish personality, but on the German side, we can't just make laggers that take 12 weeks, that that would be a killer.
Bobby Fleshman:So we make vit beer, uh, we make a heferweizen and the dunkelweisen.
Bobby Fleshman:So light and dark wheat unfiltered.
Bobby Fleshman:On the
Allison Fleshman:Sudabrau takes how long?
Bobby Fleshman:Sudabrau takes us about seven to 10 days as well.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's, and so does are dark.
Bobby Fleshman:One of the same do, uh, dark note.
Bobby Fleshman:Exactly, we knew that from the beginning we needed to balance this tank time.
Bobby Fleshman:So those are the two that help us.
Allison Fleshman:I'm just gonna interject with the fun story.
Allison Fleshman:so there's been many times, so if, let's say one of, like our brewer calls in sick for a day or something happens and we can't brew that beer or.
Allison Fleshman:What's even worse is that there's some misalignment with getting the canner to work on a particular day, which is gonna shift everything you do the next day, the day after, the day after.
Allison Fleshman:And so what happens then?
Allison Fleshman:If one thing goes wrong, then we might not have the tank time we need.
Allison Fleshman:So that means we have to flip and do a different beer.
Allison Fleshman:And there's been many, I wanna say, two or three times where something's gone wrong.
Allison Fleshman:Upstream that we then rely on, well, let's brew half of Iten, because that at least will be the every
Bobby Fleshman:single week.
Bobby Fleshman:That's, yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:That's what you don't ever eliminate.
Bobby Fleshman:Brew only half of
Allison Fleshman:Iten, but we've had to rely on on, no, no.
Allison Fleshman:Which one's the slow, the schedule's always the smallest tank time.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:And, but then we have to make sure that we have the ingredients.
Allison Fleshman:Can they get here on time?
Allison Fleshman:If they can, if there's a shipment delay and that's gonna change what it's be.
Allison Fleshman:There's entire semester here.
Allison Fleshman:This is why Bobby's always stressed.
Bobby Fleshman:Um.
Bobby Fleshman:I enjoy that part.
Bobby Fleshman:Honestly, that is a lie.
Bobby Fleshman:It's a board game for me.
Bobby Fleshman:What stresses me out is, you're right when, when equipment breaks down for the sake of having to repair it, not knowing what's gonna cost or how to repair it, uh, is the first domino.
Bobby Fleshman:And if you can't solve that, then the whole week could be shut down.
Allison Fleshman:Right?
Bobby Fleshman:So you're right, you're not wrong about that.
Bobby Fleshman:But,
Allison Fleshman:and so having a really good sense of like, you know, thumb on the pulse of the tank time is something we rely on when we have to just quickly come up with a beer.
Allison Fleshman:To then brew well,
Bobby Fleshman:like there's another part of our brand that we don't get to, to bring up too much.
Bobby Fleshman:And one day I, I hope to, once in a while we'll make a, a Belgian triple or golden planning to make a doable quad.
Bobby Fleshman:Say it's on, uh, table beers.
Bobby Fleshman:There's all these Belgian beers that I have in my brain.
Bobby Fleshman:Part of that is because I love Belgian beers.
Bobby Fleshman:Part of it's because we're a traditional brewery, and that's just another leg to that chair.
Bobby Fleshman:Another part of that is they're really quick turnarounds.
Bobby Fleshman:They ferment, uh.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, 75 degrees Fahrenheit versus 66 degrees Fahrenheit.
Bobby Fleshman:What that means is you get way faster production to get to the end, the finish line quicker, and you open up a whole new category to people that have been asking for it.
Bobby Fleshman:But you gotta watch out because that's kind of a niche market.
Bobby Fleshman:So we've always put our toe in the water's
Allison Fleshman:funny.
Allison Fleshman:Is people will come in and they'll ask, Hey, you know, why aren't you brewing Belgians?
Allison Fleshman:You should brew Belgians.
Allison Fleshman:And Bobby comes to me, he's like, they wanted Belgians.
Allison Fleshman:When are we gonna do Belgians?
Allison Fleshman:You have just opened the door.
Allison Fleshman:Now people are gonna come in and ask for Belgians now.
Allison Fleshman:Well, I don't even more so don't
Bobby Fleshman:open this door lightly.
Bobby Fleshman:I have put a cison in the tank two days ago.
Bobby Fleshman:So we have a, we have a session Cison in the tank now ready for spring.
Bobby Fleshman:It'll be ready for spring.
Bobby Fleshman:3.5% alcohol, peppercorns, orange zest, lemongrass.
Bobby Fleshman:It's going to be.
Bobby Fleshman:For all those people that have been asking for the Belgians, this is my segue back into that, also into the low ALK market.
Bobby Fleshman:People want low alcohol beers and like 5 47, it is like 5 47.
Bobby Fleshman:Yes.
Bobby Fleshman:Like a, a shot of 5, 4, 7 is low.
Bobby Fleshman:Two one.
Bobby Fleshman:I'm trying to kill two birds, one stone, but I am also aware that there are a lot of Belgian drinkers or a lot of us wey wheels out there.
Bobby Fleshman:We'll see where the numbers take us.
Bobby Fleshman:We'll see how many people drink it.
Joel Hermansen:Allison.
Joel Hermansen:This is why when people ask me to tell Bobby to brew a beer, I don't.
Allison Fleshman:Good.
Allison Fleshman:Thank you.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah, it's.
Allison Fleshman:And I love that folks,
Joel Hermansen:Twice a week I get this.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah, I love that.
Allison Fleshman:Folks are like, oh, you should brew this.
Allison Fleshman:You should brew this.
Allison Fleshman:It kind of goes in that, what you should do.
Allison Fleshman:I'm like, oh, it's so hard.
Gary Arndt:So let me close this discussion then.
Gary Arndt:The constant in this equation, so you got all these different variables, is kind of your equipment.
Gary Arndt:Mm-hmm.
Gary Arndt:Right?
Gary Arndt:So you have your shiny stuff in the back and you got a little bit extra shiny stuff across the alley.
Gary Arndt:When you're planning then for buying more shiny stuff
Bobby Fleshman:as we're looking at a screen in front of us.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Gary Arndt:So what, what are you looking at then in terms of like, okay, this is our priority for expansion that will let us do X, Y, Z?
Bobby Fleshman:Yes.
Gary Arndt:Is it more lagering tanks?
Gary Arndt:Exactly.
Bobby Fleshman:Boy, you, you have hit on the conversation of 20, 25, all of it.
Bobby Fleshman:Yes.
Bobby Fleshman:We have to figure out where is our brand going?
Bobby Fleshman:And, and I, and at this moment, I think our brand is two things.
Bobby Fleshman:It's.
Bobby Fleshman:What you see outside and what you see inside, what you see outside is we make German laggers.
Bobby Fleshman:We make a helles and a Vienna lagger.
Bobby Fleshman:That
Allison Fleshman:makes no sense.
Allison Fleshman:By the way, what you just said, you meant outside, as in like out in the wild,
Bobby Fleshman:out outside the tap room.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah, sorry.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:So like in the, the grocery stores when you go to Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Retail restaurants, that's what people know us as.
Bobby Fleshman:I like to play a trick on those people.
Bobby Fleshman:They, they go out and they discover us for those two flavors and they come in and they discover what we do here.
Bobby Fleshman:But I was gonna say, which are caste conditions, which are caste condition ales and nitro ated, like nsb Irish,
Allison Fleshman:which is amazing.
Bobby Fleshman:But, but again, that's the other two things I would think the market should see us for is, the Irish Stout.
Bobby Fleshman:I think we have sort of a choke hold on that.
Bobby Fleshman:And then the other one is, the third leg of that has been evolving over the several years we've been open.
Bobby Fleshman:And, and that's 5 47 and todo.
Bobby Fleshman:And the derivatives to that, it's, it's obvious that we have claim to that market in Wisconsin.
Bobby Fleshman:To me, there's nobody doing West Coast as consistently as we are.
Bobby Fleshman:We are committed to it in a way that no one is for better or for worse, because the market is all about.
Bobby Fleshman:The how, the hazy and cloudy, uh, we like clear IPAs.
Bobby Fleshman:We do make hazy and we put everything we can into them.
Bobby Fleshman:We don't do it to check that box, but.
Bobby Fleshman:We are emotionally, I think that we are vested in making the West coast styles.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's the three legs to the chair outside of our brewery.
Bobby Fleshman:We can't be everything to everyone out outside, but that's how they should know us.
Bobby Fleshman:That's how they should be introduced to us.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's our future and that's what's gonna plan our, our tanks.
Bobby Fleshman:That's what's gonna plan, uh, how we grow.
Allison Fleshman:But from the business side, it's just, it's hard.
Allison Fleshman:'cause tanks are, I mean, shiny stuff's expensive.
Allison Fleshman:And so, and it takes a little bit of time to get a return on that investment.
Allison Fleshman:I mean, definitely we will, we will have an ROI on it very soon.
Allison Fleshman:But it's just really about leveraging kind of the, you know, saving up to do that sort of investment.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:And it's inside the tap room, the conversation goes back to anything beyond beer.
Bobby Fleshman:People want things that are way past beer now.
Bobby Fleshman:They want THC beverages, so they're, and in Wisconsin you can use hemp derived, uh, T-H-C-C-B-D to make these seltzers that's growing.
Bobby Fleshman:So we we're gonna continue down that path.
Bobby Fleshman:We're gonna do more, uh, hop water.
Bobby Fleshman:I have some really exciting news on hop water that I guess I can mention it now.
Bobby Fleshman:It's, we, there's a new hop product from Germany.
Bobby Fleshman:As far as I know, there's a half dozen breweries using it in the United States.
Bobby Fleshman:We just made a new version of hot water with it.
Bobby Fleshman:Last week it, what it is, is these hops come directly outta the field.
Bobby Fleshman:All the oxygen is purged and they are sealed.
Bobby Fleshman:And then when you use them, it's as if you literally pull them off the plant, threw them directly in.
Bobby Fleshman:We're seeing some remarkable results on hop water with that product.
Bobby Fleshman:So that's another in non-alcoholic product that we've, we've been working on since 2019.
Bobby Fleshman:Uh, what are other things, seltzers obviously.
Bobby Fleshman:That's not going away as a market.
Bobby Fleshman:I go down the list because I'm looking at the tanks in front of us because that's part of why we're adding more tanks is because we need to deal with these smaller batches of exclusive to the taproom products that are going nowhere.
Bobby Fleshman:The market wants too many things now.
Bobby Fleshman:It wants everything.
Bobby Fleshman:Not beer, it still wants beer, but the growth is in the non-beer.
Bobby Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:I also, I know when you've had coffee.
Bobby Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Bobby Fleshman:Alison gave my third cup.
Allison Fleshman:I gave him, gave him a very large cup of coffee right before we started.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Bobby Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Allison Fleshman:Alright.
Allison Fleshman:Oh
Bobby Fleshman:damn.
Bobby Fleshman:What?
Bobby Fleshman:This is spiked with caffeine.
Allison Fleshman:Lots of caffeine.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, you're very chatty.
Gary Arndt:That's gonna wrap up this episode of the show.
Gary Arndt:Make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player so you'd never miss an episode.
Gary Arndt:And join the Facebook group and Patreon where we have been posting content that you cannot get on the regular podcast feed.
Gary Arndt:Links to both of these things are in the show notes.
Gary Arndt:And until next time, please remember to respect the beer.
