Episode 74
Mitch Steele of New Realm Brewing Wrote THE Book on IPA
Brew master over six brewery locations on the east coast, Mitch Steele is also the author of IPA: Brewing Techniques, Recipes and the Evolution of India Pale Ale. Joel, Bobby, and Stephanie ask Mitch about what it takes to expand a brewery after one success and why he'll probably never write another book.
On the east coast? Visit New Realm Brewing Co! https://newrealmbrewing.com/
Pick up a copy of Mitch's book on IPA: Amazon.com: IPA: Brewing Techniques, Recipes and the Evolution of India Pale Ale: 9781938469008: Steele, Mitch: Books
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TIMELINE
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CREDITS
Hosts:
Joel Hermansen
Music by Sarah Lynn Huss
Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow
Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co
Transcript
Hello everyone, and welcome to Respecting the Beer.
Speaker:This week we're continuing our conversation with Mitch Steele of New Realm Brewing.
Speaker:In this episode, he'll talk about how they expanded New Realm Brewing out of Atlanta all the way up the East coast.
Speaker:Mitch also reflects on literally writing the book on IPA,
Speaker:enjoy.
Speaker:And you couldn't do things like you did in San Diego, and you certainly couldn't come in and tell people you were making the best beer on the planet and, and screw you if you don't like it, which we were able to do at Stone.
Speaker:We couldn't, we couldn't do that.
Speaker:You know, we had to be part of the community and, and and really work very hard at it.
Speaker:And, and that first couple of years, that aspect of it was incredibly hard.
Speaker:I, I, it admittedly did not wanna do a hazy IPA because I thought we had missed the boat.
Speaker:And you know, I thought we had a good lineup of beers, but, you know, everybody was telling me we needed to do it, so we did it.
Speaker:And it's become our number one selling beer.
Speaker:But, you know, every once in a while I sneak in one of those classic styles and, and get it through the, through the, the, door into the tap room.
Speaker:But
Speaker:And half of it's by the staff and the brewers.
Speaker:Exactly!
Speaker:But yeah, that, that part of it and, and it was incredibly hard because I had to learn what the Atlanta beer community was drinking and you know, and it wasn't, you know, a west coast IPA.
Speaker:Okay, that's fine.
Speaker:But, you know, they wanted a little bit of everything.
Speaker:And, and, you know, this was right in, when the time when things were trending away from really aggressive beers and bitter beers and getting into softer bitterness and, and lighter styles and, you know, we had to pivot a lot.
Speaker:But we did, you know, it, but it, it wasn't without headache and wasn't without heartache on my part.
Speaker:I don't know if you're gonna ask this next, Joel, but there, there came more locations, right?
Speaker:And you started to build more locations and probably with lessons learned, made it a little easier as you, as you expanded and maybe more difficult to as you expanded.
Speaker:Yeah, you'd think it'd become easier, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Not so much.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:know, the original business plan for the brewery was to build you know, the Atlanta Brewery's a a 20 barrel a 22 Barrel, 25 HEC to Liter Brew House.
Speaker:The original plan for new realm was to build probably five of those in the southeast, you know, in population centers around the, you know, like one in each state in the southeast, so Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina Tennessee, Georgia.
Speaker:We didn't have any, any, plan to go to Virginia North Carolina was as far north as we wanted to go.
Speaker:But what happened was right after we, you know, after about a year after we started, we realized that we were going to be out of capacity in Atlanta pretty quickly, and we had better start thinking about another facility.
Speaker:And then, you know, so we started you know, doing some groundwork on that and, and building another facility, which was always part of the plan.
Speaker:But then the Green Flash Brewery in Virginia Beach, Virginia was shut down by the banks and went up for auction.
Speaker:And we were able to get a brewery that was, you know, over five times the size of what we had in Atlanta for about 25 cents on the dollar versus, you know what it's worth.
Speaker:What was the, the system,
Speaker:It's yeah, Virginia Beach has a Mueller 50 barrel brew house, fully automated brew house.
Speaker:And then they had at the time we moved in, they had 104 hundred barrel fermenters, and then I believe ten two hundred fifty barrel fermenters.
Speaker:So they were, they were batching five brews in, and we weren't anywhere near big enough to support that brewery.
Speaker:You know, and, and, and we got in there.
Speaker:We got it for a great price.
Speaker:But you know, we, we were severely under capacity.
Speaker:So we're spending money on, on, you know, rent and, and utilities and things on capacity that we weren't using.
Speaker:So, but that, that changed our plan.
Speaker:So we, you know, we were going to have a plan where we had, you know, five or six, similarly, similarly sized breweries around the Southeast, but once we got Virginia Beach, we, we went off of that plan and, and anything new that we added after that was just gonna be a small brew pub with a five or seven barrel system.
Speaker:And, and so that's what we've done so far since then.
Speaker:But yeah, things change and you react to it and you pivot when you need to.
Speaker:If an opportunity comes, you grab it.
Speaker:You know, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker:But Virginia Beach, you know, we're gonna, gosh, we've, we've got close to a hundred thousand barrels of capacity in that brewery now.
Speaker:So you, you know, it's, it's completely changed our business dynamic.
Speaker:I was, I was gonna ask a smaller question, and it was, are you exploiting having these different locations and systems to make different styles and to focus on that?
Speaker:And rather than having to replicate your lineup everywhere you go.
Speaker:Yeah, we, there's only a few beers that we brew in both Atlanta and Virginia, and, and those are some of our, our main core brands that, you know, we sell a fair amount of in both states.
Speaker:But everything else that we do is different.
Speaker:So, you know, for example, we have, we took over a brew hub outside of Charleston, South Carolina, and the head brewer there, Jeff, we don't ask 'em to brew any of the beers we're brewing in Atlanta or Virginia Beachy.
Speaker:Bruise his own beers.
Speaker:And he's got a, a really nice lineup of beers.
Speaker:He gets to be pretty creative with it.
Speaker:The same thing with Drew in Auburn.
Speaker:We, we opened up a brewery a couple years ago on the campus of Auburn University and to support their brewing science program.
Speaker:Now, they bought the brewery and they were in the process of installing it when we partnered up with them.
Speaker:But we hired the head brewer, Drew who was a graduate of that program.
Speaker:He's teaching classes there now, and he is brewing beer and he is running the taproom.
Speaker:But he gets to brew what he wants, you know, within reason.
Speaker:You know, if it's a, if it's like just a really bad idea that would make us look really foolish or something, then I, I would say no.
Speaker:But in
Speaker:you know, our brewers are, you know, they're, they're good brewers by and large, and so they get the brew pretty much, you know, what's gonna work in their taproom if they brew the wrong beer, they'll know, you know, and then they need to correct.
Speaker:But you know, if it doesn't move, if, if it just doesn't move in the tap room, they don't brew it again, you know.
Speaker:But it's, it's kind of a neat gig with us you know, being the manager or the brewing manager of these small tap rooms because they can brew pretty much what they want to brew.
Speaker:Also, they get to work with you.
Speaker:They, I mean, not to, not to stroke your ego, but that's gotta be pretty cool for everybody to be able.
Speaker:'cause and you're, you're not, you're not just celebrated and, and awarded and all this, but you're really nice guy.
Speaker:You're, you, you and a few others you can count on one hand are as collaborative as you are and, and, and forthcoming with what you know.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, at this point in my career, I mean, I'm, I, I'm kind of winding down and I, you know, I really appreciate just being able to be a mentor to people.
Speaker:There's nothing that makes me happier than, than somebody on our team creating a beer that wins an award.
Speaker:You know, I'm, I'm thrilled with that.
Speaker:I'm as thrilled as if I had won it myself.
Speaker:And, and, you know, so, you know, I, to me, you know, I look back at my time at Stone and, you know, we had, we had a great brewing team at Stone for, for many years, and, and they still do.
Speaker:But you know, when I was there, we, we hired a lot of really talented people that went off to start their own breweries and to see them be as successful as they've been, knowing that they, you know, they earned a lot of their stripes in at stone makes me feel really good.
Speaker:It's, it's very gratifying, you know, to see people that used to work for me have a lot of success in this business is nothing better at this point?
Speaker:Perfect place to mention.
Speaker:You guys are just off of winning three World Beer Cup medals last Congratulations
Speaker:you.
Speaker:From three quadrants or, or three corners of the, I wrote the what they were.
Speaker:You have a, first of all, it's Cinco de Mayo, so we have to mention your, your lime vasa, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I assume that's lime infuse Mexican lager of some kind.
Speaker:Yeah, it's just, it is actually, it is a beer that we used to brew before called, that we called Beach Bounty.
Speaker:It's just a, it's a 4% lager with lime.
Speaker:And, you know, it was just a summer beer for us.
Speaker:And then, and then we we started working with the Aldi food chain you know, the supermarket chain.
Speaker:And we started brewing this beer for them, and we started calling it Lima Vasa.
Speaker:But you know, it's, it's just a straight up you know, 4% lager with with lime added to it.
Speaker:And it's, it's a very popular beer, but to see it win a metal and a very highly entered category like fruit beer was a, a surprise.
Speaker:You know, it was a, a one of those really good surprises.
Speaker:And then your others were, you got a, a Blackberry Smoke American lager, is that right?
Speaker:Or you call it a smoke lager of some kind?
Speaker:No, it's not.
Speaker:a smoked lager.
Speaker:This, this is really funny.
Speaker:You know, this is
Speaker:something
Speaker:do you know, did you get to work with Charlie Star then?
Speaker:Yes,
Speaker:Oh, nice.
Speaker:guys are great.
Speaker:yeah, the, the, the band Blackberry Smoke, they're from Atlanta.
Speaker:And we, we were doing a, we do a fair amount of charity events and, and fundraising events, and our head sales guy was there and, and, and so does the band.
Speaker:The band does a lot of they raise a lot of money for families that are dealing with childhood cancer.
Speaker:And for whatever, however it happened, our, our head of sales and their business development guy met up at, at charity events and kept running into each other and then started talking about maybe doing a beer that could raise some money for charity.
Speaker:And then Brit Turner, who is the drummer in the band who, who passed away last year, unfortunately.
Speaker:But he was kind of the driver of this whole partnership with us.
Speaker:And, you know, it's a funny story.
Speaker:I remember, i, we were launching our beer in Myrtle Beach.
Speaker:And, and Jeff Chasner who's who's our head of sales, came up to me and said, Hey, dude, I, can I talk to you about something?
Speaker:And I'm like, yeah, what's going on?
Speaker:He said, we're, we're talking about, and he knows that I'm a huge music guy, right?
Speaker:He knows that I'm really into music.
Speaker:I want to name all of our beers with musical references, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker:You know, that's, that's just who I am.
Speaker:And he's like, we're talking to a band about possibly doing a beer together, and I wanna make sure you're okay with it.
Speaker:And I said, yeah, you know, who's the band?
Speaker:He said, well, it's a band called Blackberry Smoke.
Speaker:And I said, you're kidding me.
Speaker:Really?
Speaker:I, I said, I love that band.
Speaker:I've, I've been listening to 'em for years.
Speaker:They're one of my favorite bands.
Speaker:They're Atlanta, you know, they're and but anyway.
Speaker:familiar, Blackberry kind of like I would call them like the an Alman Brothers style.
Speaker:Southern rock.
Speaker:They're veering into jam band.
Speaker:They're touring with Mike Campbell this summer.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:They are.
Speaker:They are just terrific.
Speaker:Yeah, they are.
Speaker:They, and they're amazing musicians.
Speaker:They put on a great show.
Speaker:They tour around the world.
Speaker:I mean, they play over, you know, 200 to 250 gigs a year all around the world.
Speaker:They work as hard as anybody I've ever met.
Speaker:And so when Brit came into the brewery, and you know me, I'm trying not to be fan boy here when he comes in.
Speaker:You know, we sat down, we started talking about the beer, and he goes, look, let's, let's kind of level set here.
Speaker:Number one, this is a beer for our fans.
Speaker:So we wanna celebrate 20 years of being a band and celebrate our fans by giving them this beer.
Speaker:So we don't want an IPA, our fans don't drink ipA.
Speaker:We don't want anything with Blackberry in it.
Speaker:We don't want anything with smoke in it.
Speaker:And I said, okay.
Speaker:And, you know, I'd been to a few shows and I said, so you're talking something like, you know, bud Miller Coors type of beer, right?
Speaker:And he said, exactly.
Speaker:And I said, well, let me make it, let me try to make it a little better than that.
Speaker:Or, you know, not, not that, not that I can make a beer better than Budweiser,
Speaker:but something with a little more flavor is,
Speaker:Also, did they realize what, from what baseline you were starting at when they asked you to make a light American.
Speaker:No, no, they didn't know.
Speaker:So I mean, they learned that, but yeah, it was, it was funny.
Speaker:So, you know, I came up with this, this recipe that you know, it's a really nice American lager, but it's got a little bit of pilsner malt in it, so it just gives it a little bit something extra and it's got a nice floral hop character to it.
Speaker:And we have won in the past three years, we've won four medals at Brewers Association Competitions, you know, great American Beer Festival or World Beer Cup with this beer.
Speaker:So this is the fourth medal we've won with it, which, you know, tells me that we've, we've hit on something really pretty special with the beer, and it is been very popular with their fans.
Speaker:It's, it's one of my favorite beers that we brew you know, for that beer to win a medal.
Speaker:I remember the first time I, we won a medal.
Speaker:I wasn't at the ceremony.
Speaker:I was home doing some work around the house, and my wife, I started getting texts and, and I'm like, oh my gosh, we won a medal.
Speaker:You know?
Speaker:And, and, and my wife was inside and she got on her computer and she looked, and she goes, you won a gold medal.
Speaker:And I'm like, what beer?
Speaker:And she said, it's Blackberry Smoke.
Speaker:And she knew how I
Speaker:felt about beer.
Speaker:And I almost, I, you know, even now it still sends chills.
Speaker:I almost started crying, man.
Speaker:I was so happy.
Speaker:First thing I did was I texted Brit Turner and, and, and George, who was the business guy for the band at the time.
Speaker:I said, we just won a gold medal man with our beer.
Speaker:This is, this is really, really awesome.
Speaker:Is super cool.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, they're just great people.
Speaker:You know, Britt's daughter is a childhood cancer survivor.
Speaker:And, and so, you know, once she got went into full remission, he started a, a charitable organization you know, that raised money.
Speaker:We do food runs with them to ho local children's hospitals and things like that.
Speaker:You know, and I've gotten to know the, the folks in the band and you know, I get to go to shows and, you know, and, and hang out and listen to great music.
Speaker:I mean, you know, that's, that's the part of the craft beer industry that I really love, you know, is, is just some of the people outside of the industry that I've met.
Speaker:And, and Blackberry Smoke is, is one of my favorite, favorite experiences ever.
Speaker:It's just been amazing.
Speaker:So amidst all this, you worked at Budweiser, you worked at Stone, you've started a a series of highly successful award-winning breweries.
Speaker:You've collaborated with brilliant musicians, and you had time to write books.
Speaker:Like, how, how did, how, how is even possible?
Speaker:Like, am I missing something like I
Speaker:I, I, I don't know.
Speaker:I,
Speaker:you're also an accomplished guitar player on top of
Speaker:well, I, I don't know if I'd call myself accomplished, I
Speaker:enjoy,
Speaker:that's
Speaker:what all guitar players say, right?
Speaker:To get a card that says You're an accomplished guitar player, you must say this.
Speaker:I, I am a hobby player for sure, but I, I do love to play.
Speaker:But yeah, the book thing, so the Brewers Association approached Steve and Greg about writing a book about IPA 'cause they did not have one in their classic beer style series.
Speaker:And, and Steve came to me and said, Hey, you know, here's one of those fun things you get to do in this job if you want to do it.
Speaker:He, he goes, we've been asked to write the book on IPA and, and I wanted to ask you if you wanted to be part of it.
Speaker:And I said, oh, hell yeah.
Speaker:And, and actually, you know, Stone really helped me with the book.
Speaker:The idea was Steve Wagner and I were going to write the book together.
Speaker:And so Stone funded us a couple of research trips over to England where we were able to you know, I did all the coordination of these tours, but we visited a whole bunch of breweries and, and, and.
Speaker:met up with a bunch of retired English brew masters from Bass and Marstons and, and learned a tremendous amount about India Pale Ale.
Speaker:And I got back and I remember calling Christie Switzer, who was running Brewer's publications at the time, and I said, Christie, you know, I've learned so much.
Speaker:This book could be so much more than one of these, you know, 120 page classic beer styles books.
Speaker:I, you know, there's a great story here.
Speaker:Can we, can we tell the story?
Speaker:And she said, absolutely.
Speaker:She goes, what I want you to do is I want you to write the book and then we'll figure out how to position it in our portfolio after you write the book.
Speaker:And so we started Steve and I originally split up the book, the chapters in the book.
Speaker:Steve was gonna take half of 'em.
Speaker:I was gonna take half of 'em, and then six months into it when we were due to have manuscripts and Christie was calling us every other week asking where it was.
Speaker:Steve sat me down and said.
Speaker:I haven't written a doggone thing.
Speaker:And I'm like, what?
Speaker:I, I'm like, you gotta be, I was just, I didn't know what to say.
Speaker:And he goes, I've got writer's block.
Speaker:And this was when Stone was starting to build the plan and build the brewery in Richmond, Virginia and plan and build a brewery in Berlin.
Speaker:And Steve said, I just can't do it.
Speaker:I, I, and, and it was just a shame, you know, because Steve Wagner had a way with words.
Speaker:He was an amazing writer and, and, and just very conversational and humorous in the way he wrote.
Speaker:And I really thought it was gonna be a great part of the book.
Speaker:You know, what the parts that Steve was gonna write.
Speaker:And he asked me, he goes, do you want me to hire a ghost writer so you know, to help you finish and, and finish the book?
Speaker:And I thought about it for about 30 seconds and I said, no.
Speaker:I said, you know what?
Speaker:I was there for all the research.
Speaker:I've got all the notes, I've got the tape recordings of the interviews.
Speaker:I said, just let me write it.
Speaker:I'll, I'll just write it.
Speaker:And I locked myself in, in, in my computer, in a, in my bedroom for about a year.
Speaker:Every weekend and I, I wrote and I got that damn thing finished.
Speaker:I don't know if I could ever do it again.
Speaker:It was, it was one of the hardest things I've ever done.
Speaker:I obviously, you know, one of the most gratifying things I've ever done.
Speaker:One of the most significant things I've done in my career, but I don't know if I have it in me to do it again, that's for sure.
Speaker:It was a lot of work and, you know, the research part was easy.
Speaker:It was awesome.
Speaker:I was fired up and then once it came time to write, it got harder.
Speaker:And then once it came time to edit it got really hard and, and it was really a difficult process.
Speaker:'cause I'm not a natural writer.
Speaker:I made a lot of mistakes that professional writers don't make.
Speaker:And so when they were editing, they were firing all this stuff at me.
Speaker:That's.
Speaker:Oh man, I didn't even know that that was a problem.
Speaker:You know, syntax and grammar and, and you know, consistency with you know, with abbreviations and names and things like that.
Speaker:Things I never even thought about as a, as, you know, that writers had to think about.
Speaker:But can relate.
Speaker:I'm married to an English teacher who's a writer, so
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I, I, I get you.
Speaker:Yep, I get you.
Speaker:So, as we wrap up, I, I have a couple of questions that I wanted to ask learning a little bit about you today.
Speaker:And I wonder if you know this, Bobby, and if you do, you can't let on.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Are you ready?
Speaker:So, Mitch, what is your favorite non-New Realm publicly available beer.
Speaker:Celebration Ale by Sierra Nevada.
Speaker:Oh, same.
Speaker:That's my same everyone at
Speaker:this table.
Speaker:That's my favorite.
Speaker:The same answer.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:I didn't even have to think about it.
Speaker:is same way.
Speaker:Charlie Ba. So
Speaker:basically all of the legends that have been on this show all have the same opinion.
Speaker:That is absolutely crazy.
Speaker:Are are you not even remotely surprised, are you?
Speaker:No, I'm not.
Speaker:And I, and I'm wondering now that we've had it mentioned so many times, can we, can we get Ken Grossman on this show?
Speaker:We're eventually getting, I know he is a busy guy, but there's a lot of fans over here we, we've given all this advertisement through guests and on this side of the table.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So every time I interview.
Speaker:A brewing celebrity, a star author, also a guitarist as well.
Speaker:I have to ask the same question.
Speaker:Who is on your Mount Rushmore Brewing in the United States?
Speaker:Oh my gosh.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So only four people.
Speaker:There was only four people.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well, Ken Grossman would be one of them.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Let's see.
Speaker:Do they have to be American?
Speaker:Nope, I don't think, no.
Speaker:Then I would say Michael Jackson.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Good company.
Speaker:I, I
Speaker:then, I think I'd say Vinnie Zo,
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Your list is similar to Charlie's.
Speaker:uh,
Speaker:More spot up
Speaker:oh gosh.
Speaker:The last spot.
Speaker:That's the hard one.
Speaker:Gosh, I know.
Speaker:I'm gonna miss who I really, I, gosh.
Speaker:Fritz Maytag.
Speaker:That the, the identical three, the one difference between your list and Charlie Bamforth is we'll take Michael Jackson out and he had Charlie Papazian in instead.
Speaker:Otherwise, your list is identical.
Speaker:And, and, and Charlie Papazian is, it would be a great, yeah.
Speaker:That's, that's a great call.
Speaker:I, yeah.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No wrong answers.
Speaker:So you got three out of the four that Charlie dude, you had the same beer.
Speaker:Same favorite beer, same favorite beer as everyone at this table.
Speaker:I want one now.
Speaker:I'm surprised you're not drinking one in or have something's
Speaker:if you're drinking one.
Speaker:Now it's, I know it's a little, you extended that life.
Speaker:Just,
Speaker:It's probably a little cracker.
Speaker:You, huh?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, as we wrap up, Stephanie, any questions for Mitch?
Speaker:Any thoughts?
Speaker:Yeah, I have one actually.
Speaker:Um, so you've been in the industry since the eighties.
Speaker:You've seen firsthand very much how like a style like an American IPA has entirely just sort of taken off into all these different sub styles, all this different so many different innovations have been made.
Speaker:I know that's innovation is very much at the heart of new realm.
Speaker:It's in your mission statement, it's in a lot of your branding.
Speaker:If you personally could choose, or even just like if you have a sense of what could be the next big style that people would just, that brewers are just really gonna start kind of leaning into and messing around with and being really innovative with.
Speaker:Do you have, do you have something off, off the cuff that you would.
Speaker:Well, I think, I think what I'm seeing is, is hoppy lagers you know, be it Italian pills or West coast pills or, you know, these, these beers that are kind of a hybrid between an IPA and a lager.
Speaker:I, I'm.
Speaker:Seeing those really pick up steam, especially with the West Coast Pilsner style.
Speaker:You know, I suspect that'll be a legit style in in Great American Beer Festival and World Beer Cup within a year or two.
Speaker:I see those coming.
Speaker:I'm hoping it doesn't go the direction of massively fruit flavored stuff which is all I hear from our, our sales team and distributors right now has gotta be fruit heavily, fruit forward, fruit flavored this, that you know, I'm, I'm a big beer flavored beer person so I'm hoping that I'm right, but I don't know, you know, I, I never, you know, and after going through the whole IPA thing where there was all these sub styles that came and went very quickly, I thought the same was gonna happen with hazy IPAs.
Speaker:And it stuck, it stuck hard.
Speaker:And, and
Speaker:It's like the, that we call the internet,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You know, sometimes it's hard to tell what's really gonna stick and, and become something more than just a fa or a trend and become a real part of the part of the conversation which hazy IPA certainly have.
Speaker:You know, and, and but yeah, I'm, I'm hoping it's, it's the hoppy lager trend.
Speaker:Bobby, any other questions
Speaker:for, no, I'm thirsty.
Speaker:I wanted to thank you though.
Speaker:This is, this is great.
Speaker:I've, I have so many questions about Evil Three, that's, if that's still gonna be around, I, I see it on the shelves, but I'm not really sure what the story is behind it these days.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, you know, Jamil sold his brewery and he did not he was not able to keep the
Speaker:rights to
Speaker:is Heretic Brewing.
Speaker:Heretic brewing California.
Speaker:He was not able to keep the rights to Evil Three in the United States.
Speaker:And, and so they're, they are the new ownership has brewed a triple IPA that I believe they just call evil or something.
Speaker:You know, that's you know, and they, for a long period of time Andrew, who was Jamal's head Brewer, was there at the company too, and he recently just left.
Speaker:So he stuck on after Jamil left.
Speaker:But, Jamil, last year we were able to have a brewery in in Brighton, England called Hand Brewing Company Brew a batch of Evil Three for us.
Speaker:And
Speaker:Jamil coordinated this with me ahead of time so that we, we traveled out to England for the release of this beer and had a wonderful time.
Speaker:And that's the only time I think it's been brewed since Jamil has left Heretic.
Speaker:But you know, hopefully, hopefully we'll be able to do it again.
Speaker:We've been talking about maybe trying to do something in Japan or, you know, somewhere else, maybe back in England or in Europe or something.
Speaker:But if we get to brew it again, I will make every effort possible to be there, that, that collaboration is, is always been incredibly special for me.
Speaker:And really just, you know, being able to brew with Jamil and Tasty for that many years in a row was something I always looked forward to.
Speaker:Great beer.
Speaker:Rock and roll.
Speaker:Hey, if you ever get a chance to come to Wisconsin we do a lot of traditional stuff.
Speaker:We do ca cask ales, lagers, west Coast.
Speaker:Would love it here.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I would love that.
Speaker:I, I absolutely love traditional beer styles.
Speaker:You know, there's a couple places in Georgia that are doing cask beer now too, so I'm pretty excited about that.
Speaker:It's good to know you're not the only one who hates money.
Speaker:I dunno if you've heard,
Speaker:I love, I love beer flavored beer too, but we, we always joke because.
Speaker:As much of a beer fanatic and traditional beer person I am.
Speaker:It's also just, I know what it takes to sell beer and sometimes it's just, it's grueling.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:it's hard to get people excited about a bitter, I get it.
Speaker:You know, you know, or brown ale or something like that.
Speaker:But, you know, real beer enthusiasts still, there's still a few of us out there.
Speaker:They are.
Speaker:Well, Mitch, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap this up and I want to say on behalf of everyone sitting at this table thank you for joining us.
Speaker:you for your leadership in the industry.
Speaker:Thank you for mentoring other brewers.
Speaker:Thank you for being creative.
Speaker:Thank you for being thoughtful.
Speaker:Thank you for liking Blackberry Smoke.
Speaker:That, that is seriously a great ban.
Speaker:And I know just, I mean, you like Blackberry Smoke, you lived in California, so you obviously like the Dead too then.
Speaker:Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Alright.
Speaker:Good.
Speaker:Yeah, you, you were a little tense until that question was asked, right?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I now I can loosen up.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Excellent.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I love it all.
Speaker:gonna wrap up this episode of the show.
Speaker:Make sure to subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast players so you never miss an episode.
Speaker:And join the Facebook group and Patreon, where we post content that you can't get on the regular podcast feed.
Speaker:Links to both of these things are in the show notes.
Speaker:And until next time, please remember to respect the beer.
