McFleshman's Year in Review: 2024

Gary Arndt: 00:00:05

Hello everyone and welcome to the year end episode of Respecting the Beer.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:09

My name is Gary Arndt and we got the usual suspects with us.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:13

We got Bobby Fleshman Allison Fleshman and Joel Hermansen.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:18

And in this episode, we're going to look back on the year that was in McFeschman's Brewing.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:25

And also, the podcast, this is I, if I am correct, technically your fifth year in operation.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:32

No, this is our sixth, seventh.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:35

We're coming up on

Gary Arndt: 00:00:36

So it was 28, 2018?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:37

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:38

We did our first beer seven years ago today.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:41

Our first two beers

Gary Arndt: 00:00:43

That we're recording this on the...

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:44

7th 7th December.

Joel Hermansen: 00:00:46

Yeah, this is the correct day to be doing this

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:48

Yeah, that's crazy.

Joel Hermansen: 00:00:49

That's awesome.

Joel Hermansen: 00:00:50

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: But that was seven years ago.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:51

Yeah, what was number one?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:53

What beer was number it was Cove and Tall Mast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:55

Pirates Cove and Tall Mast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:56

Two gold medal

Joel Hermansen: 00:00:57

winners.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:58

We'll get into it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:58

Yeah

Gary Arndt: 00:00:59

So let's the different things we can talk about.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:02

Let's start with Before we get into like the business and brewing side and how that's grown.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:06

Let's talk about the beer side of all the, do you know how many batches of beer you've done this year?

Gary Arndt: 00:01:12

Approximately.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:13

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Oh, he knows to the number.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:14

Oh,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:15

well, batches probably, I don't have that in front of me, but it's probably around 150.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:20

We brewed our

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:21

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: 400, or no, sorry, 547th batch.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:25

That was included in that, of 547.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:28

Of

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:28

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: 547, well, no, and it happened to be 547, but it was Oh,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:31

sorry, yeah, yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:32

Of course it did.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:33

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Right, well, that was planned.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:35

I know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:36

We've done more than 500 and then we went on and made a triple IPA from that with honey.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:40

So there's, there's some new stuff coming down the pipes.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:43

So of the beers that you did this year what would you say of, and let's say, what was your biggest success?

Gary Arndt: 00:01:50

Like something you were pleasantly surprised with?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:53

well, that is not entirely my beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:58

That's our sports beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:59

So it's our beer, Cooler.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:02

Eric Rottier is a brewer from Titletown Brewing Company.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:05

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Nicknamed Cooler.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:06

Which we call Cooler.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:07

He can tell that story on a future episode, but.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:09

He's been dying to do a Schwarz beer since, since he joined.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:13

And explain what that is.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:14

Schwarz beer means black in German, so it's a black lagger black beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:18

And they're not roasty, so don't think Irish stout here.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:22

But they're, but they're very dark and they're a little bit chocolatey.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:26

And he and I have talking about that beer for a while, and he did 90% of the recipe and I just signed off on it and he, he knocked it outta the park.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:35

I think that's the most sought after beer we made in this entire year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:38

Mm-hmm

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:38

And it's one that we.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:40

Sort of, we don't have anything else in that category.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:43

We don't have a non roasty dark beer and I mean, dark beer, black beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:49

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: And its name was,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:51

Oh, it was named after the eclipse, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:53

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:53

We named it total eclipse.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:55

I'm not sure what that'll stick.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:57

I remember that being on the menu, but it wasn't on very long.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:00

We only did like a couple of kegs of it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:03

So it's a small pilot batch.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:04

But it,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:05

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: it, You know, I mean, to just to shout out to your NASA days and such.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:09

Bobby and I took our five year old down to see the total eclipse.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:11

We were down in Iowa somewhere.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:13

Illinois, Illinois.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:14

Yes, we were.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:15

And something that starts with an I anyway, so I think that it's a beautiful beer, but it also to celebrate the total eclipse and to celebrate just the fact that we are one space nerds, but also logger nerds.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:28

And since we brewed that, we installed a Luker faucet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:31

The Luker!

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:33

And everyone is convinced, and I'm convinced too, that when that beer meets Luker, it's going to be a house favorite for a might say it's like

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:41

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: a total eclipse of the heart.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:43

If you guys

Gary Arndt: 00:03:44

brew this again, and you end up canning it, I took this at the 2017 eclipse.

Gary Arndt: 00:03:49

Yeah!

Gary Arndt: 00:03:49

We're looking at a picture of the eclipse.

Gary Arndt: 00:03:51

I took this in Nebraska.

Joel Hermansen: 00:03:54

That would be a cool can.

Joel Hermansen: 00:03:55

Oh yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:03:56

Make the can totally black.

Gary Arndt: 00:03:58

Yeah, except for that.

Gary Arndt: 00:04:00

the Luker faucet.

Joel Hermansen: 00:04:02

Love the Luker.

Gary Arndt: 00:04:04

What make a, we've talked about the Luker on a previous episode, but very briefly, why is this special?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:09

Okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:10

So funny thing is just last week I installed a new cooling system, which makes it work even better.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:16

It's on hyperdrive now, but what it does, it creates foam, especially in log like Cezch style lagers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:23

The way it works, it's a very simple mechanism on the outside, but the devil's in the details, but it gives our staff control over how much foam and what quality of foam sits on top of a beer they pour.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:33

It's very popular in the Czech Republic and they're only made in the Czech Republic, these, these faucets.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:40

So they brought that into me a mid year and, and pass it off to me.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:43

Okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:44

to install.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:45

And I got it installed, finally got it fully 100 percent operational just this last week by adding that cooling system to it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:51

So our beer tenders are going to be able to learn the art of pouring like never before next year or starting today.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:59

Honestly if people wonder what I'm talking about here, just come inside and ask for a Malico pour.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:03

Which means milk, which translates to all foam.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:08

But if you run a milico pour out of one of these faucets and just shoot it at a five ounce glass, you get to experience that phase between foam and liquid.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:18

There is a phase between those two.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:21

And it's like a wet foam, it drinks like a beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:24

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: It's basically like you've got, so when you've got the spacing between the bubbles, Has beer in it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:31

Oh, yeah, it's tremendously wet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:32

It's a beautiful

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:33

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: combination of surface tensions, and it's a thicker

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:37

Wet versus dry foam.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:38

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Yeah, it's, it's quite, it reminds me of like melted marshmallow.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:42

I think melted marshmallow would also be this wet foam of sugar.

Joel Hermansen: 00:05:46

If I could de nerd this for a second.

Joel Hermansen: 00:05:48

Yeah, there we

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:48

go.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:49

Wait, someone's de nerding Allison who's de nerding me.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:52

So I'm way down in that nerd well.

Joel Hermansen: 00:05:54

Six degrees from nerd.

Joel Hermansen: 00:05:57

this pour tastes a lot like a milkshake.

Joel Hermansen: 00:05:59

If beer was a milkshake, this

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:02

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: a milkshake beer, because that's weird.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:03

No, no, no, no.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:04

The lactose stuff.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:05

Beer flavored

Gary Arndt: 00:06:06

beer.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:06

Hashtag.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:06

It gives off A shake five.

Gary Arndt: 00:06:10

I would like to de nerd it one level further.

Gary Arndt: 00:06:14

Luker good.

Gary Arndt: 00:06:15

Yes.

Gary Arndt: 00:06:16

Good spell G.

Gary Arndt: 00:06:17

Me like, yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:19

What was, can I point out one, one favorite of mine was the introduction of stepchild.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:24

I, if

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:25

I, you could tell I was struggling when he asked me.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:28

Reintroduction.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:29

Yeah,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:29

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:30

She's been around before.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:31

I'll let Joel

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:31

tell it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:31

Cause he's now new to stepchild.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:33

I have

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:34

been waiting for that since I got on the scene and.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:38

It finally came.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:40

And I am so glad that I, I, I had the opportunity to have it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:45

Well, I'm

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:46

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: who and what is stepchild

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:47

well documented that I'm a five 47 guy.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:50

And Rhett, the stepchild is a red version of the five 47.

Joel Hermansen: 00:06:57

It has different notes to it, but it's, it's was originally brewed as a five 47.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:03

And, some unique malfunctions in the, we discussed that.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:09

Yeah, we did.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:09

Yeah, that was on the.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:11

We had a mishap on a brew day and had to redesign it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:14

And, and what a wonderful, happy, I quote Bob Ross here.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:18

That was a happy mistake because what came out of that is just a glorious beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:23

And I've been, I've been texting Joel as I've been drinking Stepchild.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:26

I'm going to get sidetracked if I don't keep myself on track here.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:28

But in that glass, I think we have created the best example and I wasn't trying to go copy another brewery yet again, but I think we made the best example of what we might call our celebration ale.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:41

Stepchild is just so good for those

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:44

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: that don't know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:44

Celebration is Sierra Nevada.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:46

That's there's

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:46

Christmas release every year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:48

But it's not a

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:48

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Christmas beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:49

They just release it at Christmas.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:50

It's

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:50

a red IPA that comes out at Christmas.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:52

It's

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:52

my all time favorite beer, by the way.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:55

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Joel will go find it as soon as it hits whatever store shelf.

Joel Hermansen: 00:07:58

He'll find it and he'll just leave us a package on our front.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:01

He's like Santa Claus for beer.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:04

Oh, wait, you didn't do it

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:05

this year?

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:05

I, I, I didn't.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:06

You fail.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:07

I, I did.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:08

It's all right.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:08

I found it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:09

It's, I discovered it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:10

Nevermind.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:11

It's in my belly.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:12

I retract what I said.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:13

I've done it in previous years.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:14

I, I fell short this year of expectations.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:16

Well, but

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:17

stepchild has been gone for a few years and it, the, it was at a fever pitch at this point.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:22

We, we put a thing on a bar, let people vote what they wanted to see come back.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:26

And stepchild was unanimously the one they wanted to see come back.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:29

So it came back and it's now our December release forever in perpetuity.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:35

So we're going to make this our celebration now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:37

And then we were talking about doing a Christmas episode today, but I think that's the limit to, to which we'll talk about Christmas.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:43

I think that's our new.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:45

Quote, Christmas ale.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:46

Well, and if it doesn't come back each December, I'll quote one of your Wednesday night regulars who said that if this isn't back next December, he's going to start a tire fire in the middle of state street.

Joel Hermansen: 00:08:57

He may have been one of the most recent guests, reinheitsgebot.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:02

No, it's so good.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:03

And this is where I didn't want to derail myself.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:05

It's so good that we're coming off of just winning, a medal for Pirates Cove, which is our, basically was our top selling beer until 5 47 happened to meet Joel, but Pirates Cove just won a international gold medal.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:20

And yet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:22

I'm thinking of putting more money behind stepchild in the next beer competition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:28

I think it's got the chops to win, whether it does or not, who knows?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:31

What's

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:31

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: funny is Bobby just gives me an eye really quickly and I can read so much of that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:35

I, one of the things that folks are going to cost

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:37

to do.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:38

I want

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:38

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: to, so the, the beer competitions have been fun but they're also really expensive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:42

You have to not only sell, you have to send like a case plus or two.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:46

Two cases of beer,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:47

but it also

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:49

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: costs like two to 300 per entry.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:51

And so shipping and technically you're not supposed to ship beer, but that's okay.

Joel Hermansen: 00:09:57

Unless you just have Christophe and I deliver anyway, so

Joel Hermansen: 00:09:59

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: we are very selective when Bobby will come to me and I'm like, you've got this much budget.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:03

Cause I'm, I'm now like, I'm in charge of the bank account.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:06

And so he's like, okay, I'm going to send this one beer to this one competition.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:10

So it's not like we're sending every single beer.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:12

We keep winning these medals.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:14

Yeah, because like we're just sending one and we win and I just, I keep to the, I think one of the things we should really celebrate is just Bobby.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:22

I mean, one I'm married to him, so I'm a little biased, but also his thumb on the pulse of a good beer and a good beer recipe that like he, he's like the beer whisperer.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:34

So the fact that he comes up with these recipes and then he just picks one, he's like, okay, I think, you know what?

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:38

Hella or Pirates Cove needs a medal.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:40

So let's send that one.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:41

And it wins gold.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:43

Like this is continuously how we're winning our medals.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:45

He's like, yeah, this one, this one needs one.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:47

So I'm going to send it in.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:48

If we send in all of our beers, if we could actually afford it, I'm curious where we would actually like how many medals we could win because your recipes also, I know I'm wondering.

Joel Hermansen: 00:10:59

But that also gives credit to how amazing it is to have Cooler as our head brewer, because he developed, and Aaron,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:06

who's doing the packaging, who, well, because beer competitions are packaging competitions.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:11

True,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:11

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: but I was going to say that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:13

Eric's Total Eclipse Schwartzbeer recipe design.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:19

Approval.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:20

Not just approval.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:21

I think it may be our best releases.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:22

Right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:23

I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:23

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: just, like, I just think that there's a lot more that goes into these recipe developments than just, Oh, let's, you know, use these grains and use these hops like that, I think is a huge win for us and something that has really helped

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:33

us in the market.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:35

I talk about all the time.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:37

All, all the, all the

Gary Arndt: 00:11:38

cylinders are firing right now, but yeah, I mean, One, I just want to reiterate, I think winning a gold medal at this competition is, is really saying something, especially in the category you want it at,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:49

right.

Gary Arndt: 00:11:50

Which is a logger, which is like the most competitive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:52

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:11:52

But secondly, I mean, at a certain level, these are marketing things.

Gary Arndt: 00:11:56

Oh, for sure.

Gary Arndt: 00:11:57

They, there's no point in winning it twice.

Gary Arndt: 00:11:59

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:00

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:00

If there's no value, yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:02

So yeah, I would agree with it.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:04

Enter something else your next time.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:06

It's

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:07

internal gratitude.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:08

I mean, it's a pat on all of our backs.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:10

I think as much as anything.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:11

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:11

Okay.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:12

So now my next question, what is the thing you did this year that you will never do again?

Gary Arndt: 00:12:18

The biggest mistake, the, oh yeah, okay.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:21

You know, science is a series of experiments and many of them fail.

Gary Arndt: 00:12:25

And this was your failed experiment this year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:28

Hmm.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:29

Well, sadly, I think it might be our Christmas ale.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:32

We, we, we took an extruded a bunch of pine sap from The Alex Schultz is one of our handyman and graphic.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:39

I don't

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:39

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: even know what you're talking about.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:40

He

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:41

went, I remember when

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:42

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: he

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:42

got a, got a, got a bunch of pine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:44

You were talking about this on a previous episode.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:46

We made Alex

Joel Hermansen: 00:12:47

is always talking about juniper berries and stuff.

Joel Hermansen: 00:12:50

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:12:50

extruded a bunch of

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:51

stuff and we, we made a Christmas sale.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:54

We were trying to.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:55

We were trying to home in on what's what, the anchor brewing company does with their annual Christmas beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:01

Jury's still out on this subject, but as of the last tasting, it was way overdone, not nearly something we'd ever want to sell as far as palatability.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:11

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: This is the first I'm hearing of this overdone.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:14

How piney?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:15

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:15

Piney,

Joel Hermansen: 00:13:17

piney, piney.

Joel Hermansen: 00:13:17

Is it a.

Joel Hermansen: 00:13:18

What was the base?

Joel Hermansen: 00:13:19

The base

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:19

is sort of an American brown ale.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:22

we're not done with this.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:23

It's not like we're going to fill the baby up with the bath water, but Piney the Elder Elder.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:27

Oh my God.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:28

Piney the Elder.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:29

Yeah, so we'll see if that one comes to fruition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:30

I'm trying to think of any more, like, disasters or mistakes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:35

Do you, does any come to mind for you?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:37

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Not, not on the beer side.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:39

I mean, we've got, we, Bobby puts a lot of thought into it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:42

Into what things we're actually going to bring to fruition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:45

I mean, there's a lot of, even

Gary Arndt: 00:13:46

if it just didn't sell,

Gary Arndt: 00:13:47

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: there's some business stuff that we've done, like, well, that is a different

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:51

question, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:52

And it depends on what market you're in.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:54

This market is a lager market, and that's why our biggest selling beers are loggers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:59

Sure.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:00

Well, inside the tap room is another animal.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:02

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:03

547 is our number one seller and it's not even close.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:07

So.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:08

It's some, sometimes we, I wonder how much this diffuses out into the world, you know, what we do in the tap room out into the wild.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:16

We'll see, step by step.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:17

Nothing catastrophic comes to mind.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:19

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: I can, I can say one thing that we won't do again.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:23

Which is, more of a logistics thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:27

So we, unfortunately, in the early spring, the city Appleton city ordinance said that we could no longer have dogs in our cat.

Joel Hermansen: 00:14:37

That was

Joel Hermansen: 00:14:38

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: very sad.

Joel Hermansen: 00:14:39

So I think that was one of the, like it hurt our hearts.

Joel Hermansen: 00:14:41

And so what we did was we built this kind of dog area outside.

Joel Hermansen: 00:14:46

And, there's heaters and there's like this kind of fake grass turf type stuff which, unless you hit it weekly with baking soda and vinegar and like dogs like to, you know, urinate on said space.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:01

so that was me.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:02

Oh, well, there you go.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:04

Anyway.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:04

So I think that was like one of the failures were like, Oh no.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:07

Like, so.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:09

I mean, we clean it and it's sanitized.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:10

I, to be honest, I've never noticed that.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:13

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: I, well, I also stick my face down there to make sure it's clean.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:17

So I'm extra obsessive just to make sure that solution for the dogs.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:20

Don't do that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:21

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: That's fair.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:22

But before

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:22

we get, sorry, I mean,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:24

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: anyway, I just, so it's just one of the sad things that happened but we still support the dogs.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:28

I know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:29

And we're working with the city ordinances and, you know, working with older folks to try and get the law changed.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:34

But that was one of the sad things that happened this year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:37

But we still have room for the dogs outside in the heated area.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:39

The weird thing is you guys were known for that.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:42

People brought their dogs.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:43

I never saw a problem.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:46

The mayor came here multiple times, many members of the city council.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:51

No one ever batted an eye.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:53

And so I was as surprised as anyone else that somehow they would begin to worry about this.

Gary Arndt: 00:15:57

So dogs

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:58

are awesome.

Joel Hermansen: 00:15:58

So I guess that's probably point number one.

Joel Hermansen: 00:16:00

So if

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:01

Appleton's listening, contact your older person.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:04

Well, and I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:04

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: could, I could, let me, let me advocate for the, for Appleton.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:09

So we, we do serve a consumable product.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:13

But we do have.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:15

Areas that dogs probably shouldn't be like in our mezzanine to where it's kind of this actually it's wood that we salvaged from the back.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:23

The old, joists or whatever the scenes, the rafter things.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:26

We salvaged them and we built our mezzanine type thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:29

So dogs probably shouldn't go up on top of that because if they do and they pedal on the ground, that will cascade down upon the people sitting underneath.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:36

So there are certain areas that dogs probably shouldn't be allowed.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:39

But the rest of the area is just concrete with floor drains.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:42

So, and that, as long as our staff are properly trained, they could easily clean up after the dogs.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:46

You make it sound like there's

Gary Arndt: 00:16:47

like a flood of urine here.

Gary Arndt: 00:16:51

And if you remember the Reince Heidkobot episode, there's a reason why you don't bring in cats.

Gary Arndt: 00:16:55

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: That's true.

Gary Arndt: 00:16:55

Oh my God.

Gary Arndt: 00:16:56

Save the cats.

Gary Arndt: 00:16:57

Poor cats.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:58

you know, a big win for us, I think has been Tornado, which is the step sister, can't use that terminology because they'll get confusing, but it's a little sister of, of 547.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:09

And, that is becoming a really popular beer in distribution.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:13

We've tried it out in a few different markets and no one is in that lane.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:16

It's a West coast IPA in Wisconsin, not a double.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:20

It's a 6.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:21

7 percent alcohol beer, just in kind of an old school with some new twist to it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:26

So that, that's been, for us, I think that's going to help us grow our brand pretty

Joel Hermansen: 00:17:30

far.

Joel Hermansen: 00:17:31

That was a beer that you had a lot of requests for.

Joel Hermansen: 00:17:34

Asks for a lot of

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:35

pressure.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:36

Yes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:36

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:36

And

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:36

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: also, it's one of those beers that Bobby didn't just like, he didn't, you were sitting on that recipe for a long time, really thinking about it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:43

Oh yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:44

Before it came to

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:45

fruition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:45

And we strategized

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:47

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: kind of what to call it, like what the label would be, like we really thought.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:50

And we ended

Gary Arndt: 00:17:51

up just going right on the nose, right?

Gary Arndt: 00:17:52

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:17:52

Calling it Tornado.

Gary Arndt: 00:17:54

My Apple watch just came up with the Mike Fleshman's update as we're sitting here from untapped.

Gary Arndt: 00:17:59

From a beer standpoint, a brewing standpoint, what do you have planned for 2025?

Gary Arndt: 00:18:04

Well, right off the

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:05

bat, Ultima is coming back.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:07

It's a yearly beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:08

It's our brute IPA.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:10

And that one has a very clear lane.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:13

The people that love that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:15

won't, I mean, they'll drink other beers, but they look for that one.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:18

That that's a very dry champagne as beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:21

We make wine here.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:22

We're also a winery.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:24

So we have Marquette grapes and Edelweiss grapes, and we make white and red wine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:29

And it never,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:30

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: we don't sell that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:31

We don't release it

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:31

as such.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:32

We blend that wine directly with Ultima and we make a Rose in a block.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:37

And that's coming out in the next couple of weeks between the Christmas and new years, I think of it as our champagne quote of beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:45

but as far as the next year as a whole goes, Tornado is going to be a big, a big push for us.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:53

And five 47 has been promoted to number three on our distribution focus number one and two are our pirates Cove Ellis, and then our something Amber Vienna lager public houses a year round now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:07

And that really rounds out our top five.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:10

What do you have

Gary Arndt: 00:19:10

sitting in casts that are just waiting to be?

Gary Arndt: 00:19:14

Oh, in kegs,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:15

a lot of different vantage points.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:17

And we just released a bunch of, debauchery, which is our doppelbach.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:22

And vantage points is Imperial stout.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:24

Well, and one of the things

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:25

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: you just, you've talked too much.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:26

I'm going to interrupt.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:27

So one of the things that we did this year, which was really fun was vantage point day where we celebrated the different Imperial stouts with different flavorings, and we had folks vote on which one they liked the best.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:36

And I think we might actually be bottling and waxing the tiramisu.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:43

That was,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:44

that was the clear winner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:45

I think, I mean, I think the maple bourbon was also good, but I thought, I thought the cappuccino was the best, the cappuccino Timbersue.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:52

Yep.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:53

But Gary, to your, this is the big announcement and it's been the 10 year announcement, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:58

I keep bringing this up, but.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:59

But we're finally there at a point where we're going to get our act together and release our 10 Paces beers in package.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:07

10 Paces are a collaboration with the Appleton Beer Factory that we do, and they are our version of what you find in the Belgian Sour series, the Belgian Sour beer styles.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:17

We have all sorts of fruited traditional sours coming out.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:21

Some, this program has taken us 11 years, 10 years to get fully to where it is now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:26

And we'll be packaging that through the beginning of the year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:29

Are you going to have a standard 10 pages?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:32

This is a brand.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:33

It's not a flavor.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:35

I know, but like we do a

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:36

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: lamb back, like a, just an unflavored one, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:38

Oh, I used to get that every week.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:40

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:41

We'll just need a name for it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:42

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:43

There's always just

Gary Arndt: 00:20:43

been the cherry and I'm just not a cherry guy.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:45

A hundred percent.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:46

Get you.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:47

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:47

And just the plain sour.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:49

I really liked, well, and you'll be happy to know.

Gary Arndt: 00:20:51

I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:51

wish Christopher here, but we're releasing barrel age Britannia mice.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:55

He's aged Berlin or vice, and that is.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:59

Phenomenal.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:59

It may be even better than stepchild in terms of submitting to a competition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:04

So we'll,

Gary Arndt: 00:21:05

I, I really like that.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:07

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:07

Although I must confess, I did a taste test one night when Joel was here, I could not tell the difference between the Berliner Weiss and the Goza.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:14

Oh, they're very, very similar.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:16

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Interesting.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:17

Go team goza.

Joel Hermansen: 00:21:17

I'd also point out that I put 547 in both of those glasses.

Joel Hermansen: 00:21:21

So,

Gary Arndt: 00:21:24

And then I dumped it and then you refilled it with, 547.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:27

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Can I, can, can I say something that I think was a win that we did that didn't necessarily have to do with the beer that we, like, so this year I want to give a shout out to, we had some in the winter in January and February, we had beer classes.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:43

that Joel and I taught that I think were a huge success.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:47

And so that's something that we want to bring back.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:49

Because I think that was ridiculously fun.

Joel Hermansen: 00:21:52

Right.

Joel Hermansen: 00:21:52

Coming back in 2025, Gary.

Joel Hermansen: 00:21:55

You asked about 2025.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:57

January.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:58

a great idea and I think it's very on brand.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:01

with what you're doing.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:02

And I should say the other big thing you did in, in this year is we launched this podcast.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:10

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: That is the thing.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:11

But we've had folks come like travel from far, far away because they heard on the podcast.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:16

We have a

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:16

long list.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:17

I have some exciting.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:18

New potential guests.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:20

I want to, I don't want to break that possibility.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:22

Hang on, I should add,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:23

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: if you would like to sign up for any of our beer classes, McFleshman's Beer Academy, you can find it on our website, mcfleshmans.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:29

com.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:29

And we have a new class this year.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:31

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: We do, new class.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:32

We do.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:33

In the past I've done beer in U.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:34

S.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:35

history, which we'll still do again.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:38

We should.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:39

We will.

Joel Hermansen: 00:22:40

But we now are going to be running a beer in world history class.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:44

And when you initially did this, you did this down in the tap room.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:48

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: That's because we were closed on Mondays.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:50

And so we opened up the tap room on Mondays, but

Gary Arndt: 00:22:51

now you have this wonderful room that we are recording in

Gary Arndt: 00:22:56

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: the prohibition room,

Gary Arndt: 00:22:57

which is accessible.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:01

Which was a change you did this year.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:03

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Well, actually, well, as a change we did last year, actually, well, who came up with that idea?

Gary Arndt: 00:23:07

So we open, I can't

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:08

remember.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:09

Oh, I think

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:10

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: it was some guy named Gary who was just standing there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:13

I

Gary Arndt: 00:23:16

got to admit when I came in here, you're like, you had the mezzanine and it's like, well, did you just not finish it?

Gary Arndt: 00:23:21

Like why, well, like it's just natural.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:23

You built like a half stair, finish the stair.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:26

And it, it took you saying that for me to go open the computer up and remember that we did design that we walked away from the idea years ago.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:35

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Alison, you should, you and Bobby should open up the prohibition room by adding the staircase on the mezzanine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:40

And we're like, Holy crap.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:41

That's the problem is that we can't really rent out the prohibition room because it's only accessible via an outside staircase.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:46

So winter, no one wants to use it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:49

Now it's external seat or extra seating.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:52

So it'd be good to see, like bringing all this together, the, the, the classes and the podcasts and all the things we do, bringing it together in one big marketing promotional envelope.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:04

It's all

Joel Hermansen: 00:24:04

under the same umbrella.

Joel Hermansen: 00:24:05

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:24:06

And that umbrella is building a community, which is what we do here

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:09

before we.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:10

Cause I got a lot more things.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:11

I'm not going to bring them up because we're running short on time, but yeah, don't worry about it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:14

This is a podcast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:15

This isn't network television.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:17

Oh, it's not.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:18

No.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:18

Well, I did want to say, I want to make an old world IPA, like a what old world IPA.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:23

Like, so you're going to literally ship it to India.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:26

I'm going to do my best to simulate all of that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:29

Stand by for that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:30

It's been a pet project I've had for years.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:32

I'm going to finally execute on that this year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:35

And then the other one is we're doing a Snickers beer with Hop Yard up the street.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:40

Wait, the candy bar?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:41

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:42

Wait, what?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:42

Oh, I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:42

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: love Snickers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:43

No, hell no.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:43

Oh, yeah, we're doing a Snickers beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:44

That is not Reinheitzcabot.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:45

Yeah,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:46

well, we can blame it on them, though.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:47

Oh, yeah, no, that's not

Joel Hermansen: 00:24:48

Reinheitzcabot.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:50

Where's Kristoff?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:51

He's Two extremes there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:54

You know, also talking about our future expansion, we're, we're still thinking about moving into a second location at some point, not moving, expanding into.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:03

And I just kind of want to mention this not to bring us down to a negative note, but a lot of breweries are closing and I'm really proud that we're able to stay open through all of this.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:13

There's been a lot, it's been a challenging couple of years.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:16

If anyone's watching the news, we lost Mob Craft.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:20

We lost.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:20

Barrel 41 closed.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:21

Barrel 41 this year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:23

We lost,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:24

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Sabbatical Brewing is closing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:25

Leinenkugel's.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:26

Yeah,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:27

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Leinen's.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:29

Sabbatical.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:30

We lost the Enlightened Brewing Company, Milwaukee.

Gary Arndt: 00:25:32

Is Leinenkugel's, like, the brand closing or is it just being sold?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:35

I think it can, I think the brand's staying.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:37

It's going to get, going to get absorbed into the Milwaukee Brewing Plant, or Miller Brewing Plant.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:42

They lost a hundred jobs, they closed the plant.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:44

So it's a whole new thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:46

And so I'm really proud that we're standing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:49

I know a lot of brewers are struggling right now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:51

And I think it's because we've been able to innovate and we were making good quality product because you, at the end of the day, as it's trims away, it's got to be the, the best.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:58

The best quality that's going to survive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:01

And we're even doing N A and THC beverages.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:03

You know, we're trying to follow what we are

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:05

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: diversifying.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:06

I disagree with that

Gary Arndt: 00:26:08

a little.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:10

See, I don't, I'm not a believer in you build it.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:13

They will come.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:14

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:15

That's true to a point, right?

Gary Arndt: 00:26:17

It is a, you, you must have a good product, but having a good product does not guarantee success.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:23

And I kind of, I feel like I'm in, in a certain way, like I have a similar mindset to you guys.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:31

In terms of background and whatnot, you guys are academics and you come into the world of business.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:36

And I've heard you guys complain and just comment on the things you've been learning in the process of this.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:43

And it's like all crap I went through before, like learning the power of marketing, that it's just not enough to have a good beer, people need to know.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:53

That you have a good beer.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:55

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: So from a business

Gary Arndt: 00:26:56

out there, we're listening.

Gary Arndt: 00:26:57

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: She's probably, what's funny is I just, I just looked down on my notes and I ceased giving Stephanie

Gary Arndt: 00:27:03

Harvey.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:03

We'll be here in the next few weeks.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:05

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:05

So from a business standpoint, what do you think you guys, what were the realizations or the advancements you guys made this year,

Gary Arndt: 00:27:14

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: you know, it's so funny.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:16

I, this is going to sound so boring, but I had the, good fortune because lack of a better phrase I really wanted to understand the numbers of the business.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:28

And so I created a budget and Bobby knows about this budget.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:31

Oh my gosh.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:32

So basically I, I went through and I looked at every single transaction this brewery has made.

Gary Arndt: 00:27:37

I mean, we've run about a million dollars through this company.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:40

Your neuroses was kicking in.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:41

It

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:41

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: has, and I have it cataloged and characterized and even color coded.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:47

And you'd say like, oh, well, that's just a chart of accounts and it's fine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:50

But I really have a thumb on the pulse of the finances of this business that I've never had before.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:56

I mean, I'm a number nerd.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:57

Hooray.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:58

Give me a spreadsheet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:58

You?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:59

Really?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:59

I know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:01

But I think that understanding that the business aspect of How much we've missed in terms of opportunities to market and sell.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:10

I think we would be farther if we had that strength.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:14

But that's been one of my biggest realizations, just looking at this budget, give an

Gary Arndt: 00:28:17

example of that,

Gary Arndt: 00:28:18

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Same like

Gary Arndt: 00:28:19

opportunities to sell you're talking about.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:20

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Well, so like, just optimizing social media, for example.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:25

So instead of just saying, Hey, like.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:27

From a reactive versus proactive perspective.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:30

so a reactive perspective would be like, Hey, come, we have this new beer on tap.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:34

Little Tornado.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:35

Like, had we really built up anticipation?

Gary Arndt: 00:28:38

Like, hey, Little Tornado's coming.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:39

Hey, Love 547, here we go.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:41

Like, I think that there's ways to have strategized.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:44

Building the hype that we missed out on.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:47

How does the

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:47

little guy

Gary Arndt: 00:28:48

simulate what the big guy does?

Gary Arndt: 00:28:49

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:50

They're doing that.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:51

And a lot of this has become, I don't think you want to simulate, simulate what the big guys do, because you can do stuff they can't do.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:56

True.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:58

You will never be Miller, right?

Gary Arndt: 00:29:00

You can never compete with them.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:01

What Miller offers is that

Gary Arndt: 00:29:03

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: we will never be Miller cool, but it's like they're offering a mass

Gary Arndt: 00:29:07

produced beer.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:08

Everyone knows what they're getting.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:10

You're offering something completely different, right?

Gary Arndt: 00:29:13

That they can never do.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:15

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:15

And I think you need to, to emphasize your strengths.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:18

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:19

That, you know, that, that is, you're going to feel, that's, that's a niche you fill in the ecosystem.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:24

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:24

You know, when you walk into the beer cooler at Quick Trip, which is a local convenience store.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:29

Yes.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:30

Find, you know, it's just, It's just mass produced, you know, it's, it's, it's that quantity beer and maybe you're, you're not going to be there, but what's funny is I have a picture of my five

Gary Arndt: 00:29:41

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: year old standing next to pose to her something.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:43

Amber, I was like, Oh my God, we're in crypt trip.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:44

Quick kid, go next to the thing.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:46

And we're going to get

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:48

like eye level shelf and it's not, we're not that prominent, but we were

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:52

there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:53

Wait, is

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:54

that a thing?

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:56

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:56

Shelf placement?

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:57

Oh.

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:57

Oh.

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:58

Or gifts.

Joel Hermansen: 00:29:58

Alright, let's do another show on that.

Gary Arndt: 00:30:01

At the end of an aisle, like Frito Lay and these companies, they pay for that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:06

Oh yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:06

We have offers to do it at all the local grocery stores.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:09

But you have to pay to play.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:10

It's a whole thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:12

When Stephanie gets here, we'll do maybe like five episodes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:14

I had, I mean, I, now that

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:16

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: this business aspect of things that we're not aware of that we're supposed to be doing, like I just, there's, and the other thing too, and so Gary, back to your question about like, so what did I learn from like doing this budget?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:27

I've learned, and this is something that Gary, you said a few earlier if you build it, they will come.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:32

That's really how Bobby and I naively started this company.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:35

We're going to build these cast condition ales and they will come and understand the beauty.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:39

It took a lot of work to educate the consumer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:30:42

About what a cast conditional was, as opposed to the 547, which just sells itself, one might say anyway, but But how does how to take a dollar that that so someone gives us a dollar To buy their beer or they give us eight dollars.

Joel Hermansen: 00:30:58

Oh, shoot.

Joel Hermansen: 00:30:59

I've been overcharging people So,

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:02

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: how do we take that eight dollars and then convert it into more money to put into You The brewery and to like to reinvest it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:10

I've been thinking about this, these dollars as like, is this a good investment, bad investment?

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:14

And these are things that we're just learning as naive business owners that I think it's, it's one of those things that people who come into this place and they're like, Oh my God, this, I, I love.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:24

The tap room experience.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:26

I'll buy this beer.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:27

I feel like this part of this community.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:29

But in the end, it is also a business and we're having to figure out ways to strategize reallocating or reusing and reinvesting that money such that we can just pay our employees and continue to grow our employees because we created 14 jobs in Appleton since we've opened.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:44

I mean, we're a small business, but those are time.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:47

Yeah, five full time.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:48

Yep.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:48

And then several part time.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:50

And so thinking about how do we continue to grow such that we can grow the number of jobs we can create.

Joel Hermansen: 00:31:55

Yeah, I think it's exciting for me

Bobby Fleshman: 00:31:58

that we have all this potential, we have a brand, we know from these lessons what to do next, and yet I look and I see the landscape of just maybe everywhere with tariffs and inflation and everything else, but then I specifically see how it's affected the brewing industry and all these breweries that are closing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:17

It feels kind of strange to think about.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:19

To also feel really good about where we are.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:21

And I'm very thankful for that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:23

But we are where we are

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:24

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: one, because people believe in the product that we sell.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:27

And that's something that we haven't marketed.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:29

Well, I think, yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:31

And Gary, you're really good at like, not pointing this out, but also helping us recognize that we have so many different stories to share that we're just, we don't even realize it because it's just the life we've lived.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:32:43

That's

Gary Arndt: 00:32:44

that, that's your strength.

Gary Arndt: 00:32:46

Like if.

Gary Arndt: 00:32:47

A lot of, a lot of selling and a lot of marketing is telling the story.

Gary Arndt: 00:32:52

Big companies try to do that and they do it.

Gary Arndt: 00:32:55

Horribly, because nobody's going to buy into the, you know, the, the, the century long story of, of Budweiser.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:01

It's just fricking Budweiser.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:03

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:03

Right.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:03

That's all it is.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:05

But I've heard so many things I never knew about the things you produce.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:10

Just talking to you guys on this podcast.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:12

I have drunk so many Brasina ciders here.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:15

I didn't know the story behind it.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:17

That's a fascinating story behind the naming of it.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:19

Just the naming of so many of your things have a story behind it.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:22

And then you get into, I didn't realize how many hops went into 547.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:26

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: So many hops,

Gary Arndt: 00:33:27

right?

Gary Arndt: 00:33:28

I just thought it was hops.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:30

Right?

Gary Arndt: 00:33:31

But no, it gets into it, and every beer you make has a story.

Gary Arndt: 00:33:36

Absolutely.

Joel Hermansen: 00:33:37

Well, and that's why we do the beer, you know, the beer classes, really, is to kind of put those on either a historical timeline or a scientific, you know, now it wouldn't be a timeline in science, but if we put it on a scientific perspective as well, we can put forward.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:00

Because we all, whenever I write my courses, and I know you do the same, branding is always something we're thinking about.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:06

I've learned that it's supposed to be.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:07

This is an opportunity to talk about Tallmast, you know, to do this, this Beer and World History class.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:15

So that, that's why we do that.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:17

That's why we do this.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:18

Well, this is fun.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:19

I could, I would just sit up here and talk when, when

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:21

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: I remember.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:22

So Joel, you worked us for, I think only about six months or so.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:25

And you said one of the fun things about, so you're a high school.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:29

English English teacher, sorry, history teacher.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:31

Sorry.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:32

I've had one too many.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:34

I was about to say 547s.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:35

MSPs.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:36

Good God, how many MSPs have I had?

Gary Arndt: 00:34:38

You just conceded the previous episode.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:42

Please make a note of that in the notes.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:45

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Anyway, Joel came to me and said, I, I have trouble sharing stories with my students.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:51

Just students are changing over the years.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:53

He's a history teacher and just wants to share the stories of history.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:57

He's like, I get to tell stories here.

Joel Hermansen: 00:34:59

Like you've given me an opportunity as a beer tender to tell stories.

Joel Hermansen: 00:35:03

And that was so moving that you, it's really that we sell beer in conversation.

Joel Hermansen: 00:35:08

And so it's not necessarily that you come in, you get your beer and you go sit down, you know.

Joel Hermansen: 00:35:12

I enjoy it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:35:12

I think that folks, you know, they form relationships with our beer tenders because they're part of the story.

Joel Hermansen: 00:35:17

I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:17

was going to say that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:18

I mean.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:19

This whole thing is about the liquid, which I came into the game, knowing something about the liquid.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:23

And then I had to learn how to build the space and the ambience.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:26

And then we had to hire people that could represent us.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:29

There's a, there's three legs to that chair that the customer experiences, and we are unbeaten in terms of our service here.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:36

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:37

And we, if you look on any of the Yelps whatever's, you see that no one really beats us in terms of, of, of those ratings.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:44

And it's not.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:46

Me, I'm not up there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:48

It's so it's the liquid is all I can do.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:50

I can build the space and put the beer in the kegs, but then the people behind the bar are really representing us for sure.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:35:57

Don't tear up Joel.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:00

There's a, there's a lot of people down there, but they're all fantastic.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:04

They're really good.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:05

They're really fun, loving beer, knowledgeable group of people.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:09

Everybody's got their own style.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:11

Don't everybody's got their own thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:13

Oh yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:14

Yep.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:14

And I, and the one thing that I knew as much as I didn't know about the business of anything in hospitality, I knew we did not want people to come in and somebody hand them a beer that is of a certain color and that's about all they could say about it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:28

That was a really bad representation to, if they're just like, give me a pale ale.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:32

And like, I think if we have one that's like that and they give no background or, or any, any more details, that's a really bad experience.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:39

Right.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:39

Well, and it was shortly after I started that you.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:43

And you paid for everybody to get their Cicerone certification.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:47

Right, right.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:48

Because you want people to be fluent.

Joel Hermansen: 00:36:51

In speaking the language of beer, because beer is a language.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:36:53

And as we added the lucre faucet, that's a journey that we're going to take over the next so many months, becoming really good at using that and number of other things, but that's symbolic.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:05

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: So exciting.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:06

You love the lucre.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:06

I

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:06

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: love the lucre.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:07

I don't drink from it at all.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:08

Cause I'm always drinking.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:09

The background picture

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:10

on your phone.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:10

Did that replace Jade?

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:11

All

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:14

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: I have is like lucre faucet

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:15

Jade on my phone.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:16

So I can relate to that.

Gary Arndt: 00:37:18

What is, and obviously, maybe you can't talk about everything.

Gary Arndt: 00:37:21

What do you have planned business wise for 2025?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:25

Well, distribution, we have a couple of different parts of our brand.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:29

Toronado is our big push in distribution.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:31

The West coast IP I mentioned earlier.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:33

Then on, and can

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:35

I comment on that based on the one that I just had?

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:39

You're going to need a bigger boat.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:40

Oh, I love it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:41

I love it.

Joel Hermansen: 00:37:42

That was ridiculous.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:43

Before we did the small tweaks, we were putting it in four test markets and it vaporizes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:48

So we know where we're, we're hitting some nerve out there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:52

But as far as.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:53

The tap room, which is where bread and butter is, which is the point of the whole thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:57

We need more seats.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:37:58

And we were not, we're not trying to be opaque about needing to open a second tap room.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:04

We need more seats.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:05

Our plan was to expand onto our property when we built this place.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:09

But now the property that we were going to expand onto.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:13

Is a beer garden that I don't think the town will let us build on to.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:16

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:16

The beer garden draws so many in during the summer months.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:19

We're not going to touch it,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:21

but we might add a second level out there this year.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:23

That's the plan to add a deck and that deck will, will also allow us to put another bar on it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:32

And a staircase onto the roof.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:34

I'm giving my five, I'm giving my five year plan while I block her expression.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:38

But my five year plan is to build the rooftop bar.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:41

I have all of the, but what about covered?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:44

I think so.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:45

We'll see how that plays out

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:47

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: in an elevator

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:49

has to happen.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:49

An elevator has to

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:50

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: happen.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:50

to happen.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:51

Our prohibition room area, which is where we're sitting now,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:54

and that deck and this bar is

Bobby Fleshman: 00:38:55

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: only accessible via staircase, which is limiting, which isn't cool because it doesn't go with our mission statement, which is, you know, about being a very inclusive community.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:03

So I think that one of the things that we're going to do is really focus and try and build.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:09

The taproom experience or at least the onsite experience.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:13

other breweries have talked about 2nd locations and we would love to do that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:17

We just don't have the cash and capital to do so quite yet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:20

But the kicker about this whole thing is we opened in 2018.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:24

Covid hit in 2020.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:26

And so we actually flipped over.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:28

Our business model, which was build the tap room first and then expand into distribution.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:33

So because of COVID, we actually built our distribution first because we had to, and so we really haven't been able to focus 18

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:40

months in when COVID hit, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:42

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: And so that whole business model has been flipped.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:39:44

So I really think that this year is the year 2025 is the year of strategic investment to the tap room to just really enhance the experience and make it the destination of Appleton.

Joel Hermansen: 00:39:56

And for those who don't listen to the podcast.

Joel Hermansen: 00:39:59

or who listened to the podcast and maybe don't know this Bobby.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:04

And Alex can build anything.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:07

They're like MacGyver.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:09

You know, if you gave him like a bag of nails and a rusty hammer and with Alex, with

Bobby Fleshman: 00:40:14

Alex a 10 ounce of 547.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:17

Which he would then leave all over the place for us to pick up.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:20

But these guys, all of the work that gets done here, like you're talking about building the brew deck.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:26

That's, that's going to be done by these two people.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:29

Oh yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:30

It's not going to be, Oh, we're going to hire bolt to come in.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:32

No, it's going to be those two Jimmy rigging something together.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:36

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:36

Completely legal and

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:38

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: within the laws and within the building codes and all of that,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:40:40

right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:40:41

We built this place.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:40:42

It's all over, but you know, the

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:43

bottom line is if you're working eight hours, you know, in the brewery sort of thing, you would be adding an additional eight hours doing that.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:49

It's true.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:50

Cause that's just how you roll.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:51

And I don't think people know.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:52

Most people don't, maybe don't know that.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:54

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:54

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:40:54

Bobby works about 18 to 20 hour days.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:40:57

Yeah, I was checking for a minute those four to six.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:00

I'm right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:00

This is lacking But you know, I get up here at 5 in the morning I get to literally be alone in the brewery and I guess whisper to the fermenters and it's so rewarding Every time

Gary Arndt: 00:41:11

I should come in here sometime around then just when I'm going to bed, doing Q feet.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:14

You, you should.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:15

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:15

Oh my God.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:15

We'll do, we'll do beer samples together now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:17

Allison McCoy-Fleshman: We installed cameras.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:18

we installed a camera that faces the ferment or temperatures just so he wouldn't have to come in at 4:00 AM . And I was like, you can just look on your phone.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:26

I still do.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:27

You do?

Joel Hermansen: 00:41:27

Yeah.

Joel Hermansen: 00:41:28

It's so on.

Joel Hermansen: 00:41:28

Brand . Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:31

So long.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:32

The camera on the fermenter temperatures.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:34

. Gary Arndt: Well, that is gonna wrap up 2024 for the Respecting The Beer Podcast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:41:39

Stay tuned.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:40

We're going to have a lot more coming in the next year.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:43

Please make sure to subscribe to the show and your favorite podcast players so you can get every single episode and join the Facebook group so you can find out what's happening between all the episodes and support the show over on Patreon because we even have t shirts now.

Gary Arndt: 00:41:58

Links to both of these can be found in the show notes and until 2025 please remember to respect the beer.