Episode 53
Beer Tasting 201 w/ Professor Allison Fleshman
Welcome to science class! Professor Allison Fleshman teaches you all about the science behind tasting that pint in your hand.
This is a glimpse behind the curtain of McFleshman's Beer Academy! A in-person class with taste tests and fancy visuals.
Sign up for our next available class here: https://www.mcfleshmans.com/mcfleshmans-beer-academy/
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TIMELINE
00:00 Intro to Beer Tasting
03:43 Experiment: Drink Beer With a Straw
08:24 Science of Beer Tasting 101
15:29 Aromatic Compounds: Terpenes
21:33 Yorkshire Round VS Tall Mast Taste Test
23:51 Mouthfeel: Carbonation, Viscoscity, and Aftertaste
30:02 Not that Kind of Chemist!
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CREDITS
Hosts:
Music by Sarah Lynn Huss
Recorded & Produced by David Kalsow
Brought to you by McFleshman's Brewing Co
Transcript
Hello Beer Respecters.
David Kalsow:Every once in a while at McFleshman's, we do beer classes.
David Kalsow:We have a history class and a science class,
David Kalsow:and today's episode is part of the science class.
David Kalsow:I took one of the classes and condensed it down into a highlight reel, so to speak, cutting out a bunch of questions that were frankly, very difficult to hear, and any of the bits and bops of just waiting around because you are served to drinks during this class so that you can understand tasting beer better.
David Kalsow:Allison goes into the chemistry of everything and much more.
David Kalsow:So if you enjoy this highlight look for the class listings usually around the winter time 'cause it's a little less busy.
David Kalsow:Enjoy.
Allison Fleshman:Check sound.
Allison Fleshman:Check taste, Czech beer.
Allison Fleshman:Hildy.
Allison Fleshman:Delicious.
Allison Fleshman:You weren't paying attention in my last class.
Allison Fleshman:Definitely not a Hildy.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:Um, hi.
Allison Fleshman:It's a dark hilde.
Allison Fleshman:It's a dark hill.
Allison Fleshman:It's very dark.
Allison Fleshman:Hil.
Allison Fleshman:It's a hilde that decided she wanted to become a Yorkshire round.
Allison Fleshman:Welcome everybody.
Allison Fleshman:My name is Alison Fleshman um, what am I I am an associate professor of chemistry, Lawrence University.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:And McFleshmans.
Allison Fleshman:I am the Mc of the McFleshmans technically.
Allison Fleshman:My name is Alison McCoy Fleshman um, yay.
Allison Fleshman:So, today is, we are going is we, today we're gonna, this is part two, um, of my class on the science of beer tasting.
Allison Fleshman:I see several familiar faces.
Allison Fleshman:I also see some new faces.
Allison Fleshman:So welcome.
Allison Fleshman:Do not worry.
Allison Fleshman:You don't need to have taken my class before.
Allison Fleshman:But you should have, so shame on you.
Allison Fleshman:But, um, uh, so really what we're I, I divided the science of beer tasting into two groups.
Allison Fleshman:The first one is we taste with our eyes, which is lovely.
Allison Fleshman:You can probably see this dark beer and you've already judged it a bit.
Allison Fleshman:Well, what we're gonna do today is talk about tasting with our nose.
Allison Fleshman:And so my two wonderful colleagues in the back, one, Joel Hermanson and John Lemery are helping me out.
Allison Fleshman:And they are going, yes.
Allison Fleshman:Give them guys a round of applause.
Allison Fleshman:You might also notice my wonderful producer here, David Caslow.
Allison Fleshman:Hello Producer.
Allison Fleshman:You might ask, how am I that famous?
Allison Fleshman:Well I, along with my husband, Bobby f Fleshman, and our wonderful host, Gary Arnt, have a podcast called Respecting the Beer.
Allison Fleshman:And we are going to record some of me talking tonight because we have all voted that I am the best one.
Allison Fleshman:Of the group.
Allison Fleshman:Yay.
Allison Fleshman:That's true.
Allison Fleshman:Don't tell Joel.
Allison Fleshman:I know.
Allison Fleshman:We definitely won't tell Joel Hermanson who's standing right there and can hear all of the things that we are saying.
Allison Fleshman:Hi Joel.
Allison Fleshman:Um, anyway so if you're not on any of the podcasting device type app things, um, look us up Respecting the Beer podcast.
Allison Fleshman:Follow us on Patreon and or tune into this episode and you yourself could hear yourself ask a question.
Allison Fleshman:'cause you will have many.
Allison Fleshman:'cause there's a lot to talk about.
Allison Fleshman:Or you can come to me afterwards and I can help find the app.
Allison Fleshman:There we go.
Allison Fleshman:Alright.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:And this is me stalling because my, I've almost called you my servants,
Allison Fleshman:my servers in the back.
Allison Fleshman:I love them so much.
Allison Fleshman:Any questions so far?
Allison Fleshman:What are we drinking tonight?
Allison Fleshman:Hilde Hilde.
Allison Fleshman:Hell yeah.
Allison Fleshman:I've got some.
Allison Fleshman:Hil.
Allison Fleshman:Ms. B?
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:SB, Ms. B. Dark note.
Allison Fleshman:Dark note.
Allison Fleshman:Dinkle.
Allison Fleshman:Vison.
Allison Fleshman:Cool.
Allison Fleshman:The hazy.
Allison Fleshman:P The hazy.
Allison Fleshman:IPR.
Allison Fleshman:Alter ego.
Allison Fleshman:I see that.
Allison Fleshman:Trying to recognize some of them.
Allison Fleshman:Is that 5, 4, 7 or This is, um, alter ego.
Allison Fleshman:Alter ego or hazy.
Allison Fleshman:Hooray.
Allison Fleshman:Um, I'm seeing, oh, I'm seeing our 10 paces.
Allison Fleshman:Um, lambic.
Allison Fleshman:Fantastic.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:Here they come around.
Allison Fleshman:So you'll be receiving a beer.
Allison Fleshman:Perfect.
Allison Fleshman:You are to taste this beer with the straw by placing your hand over the top to where the straws coming out of the cup.
Allison Fleshman:Try to block any of the smells that are coming out and taste it through the straw.
Allison Fleshman:I want you to, while you're tasting this, I want you to write down two thoughts.
Allison Fleshman:I smell this and this.
Allison Fleshman:I taste this and this.
Allison Fleshman:Once you've gotten those few thoughts written down, then I want you to.
Allison Fleshman:Try the beer without the straw and with no hand.
Allison Fleshman:Cool.
Allison Fleshman:Do we all understand the instructions?
Allison Fleshman:This is one of the, yes.
Allison Fleshman:This is good science.
Allison Fleshman:It's extra instructing you how to taste your beer.
Allison Fleshman:All the good science classes should have beers like that, and I believe straws are coming around.
Allison Fleshman:All right, so again, if you have your beer already, go ahead and put the straw or put the hand over the top.
Allison Fleshman:Taste with the straw.
Allison Fleshman:It just seems so wrong, doesn't it?
Allison Fleshman:To I see some of your eyes.
Allison Fleshman:You're like, I'm not gonna taste my beer with a straw.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:Y'all have your straws.
Allison Fleshman:There you go.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So again.
Allison Fleshman:You're gonna taste your beer with your straw.
Allison Fleshman:And to those listening at home, I encourage you to do the same thing.
Allison Fleshman:If you taste your beer, I know you're gonna hear me talk to random people.
Allison Fleshman:Um, try tasting your beer by drinking it out of a can.
Allison Fleshman:Ooh, it's the same thing really, if you think about it.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, if you are the ones that have drinking out or drunk your beers out of a can, I am judging you directly right now.
Allison Fleshman:Or a bottle.
Allison Fleshman:Good call.
Allison Fleshman:So what do we think with and without the straw?
Allison Fleshman:Well, the bitterness came through with a straw, but not a lot else.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, bitterness and nothing else did, was it?
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:Well let's just start.
Allison Fleshman:So was it same or different?
Allison Fleshman:Different, different, different experience.
Allison Fleshman:Ooh.
Allison Fleshman:It's almost like those little molecules really have something to say.
Allison Fleshman:Which one did you like better?
Allison Fleshman:Without, without, without the straw.
Allison Fleshman:Oh yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So if you find yourself, and I am notorious for this, um, the other day we had a wine and cheese reception at Lawrence and I go to the bar and, uh, we're meeting the, the president and the provost and all the fancy administrative folks, and it's a wine, wine and cheese reception.
Allison Fleshman:So I go and I say, I have a beer.
Allison Fleshman:And they're like, we don't have beer.
Allison Fleshman:And I was like, well, that's ridiculous.
Allison Fleshman:I demand we have a beer.
Allison Fleshman:The vice president of student life was like, Allison, I'm gonna get you a beer.
Allison Fleshman:So they ran and found some New Glarus lovely spotted cow.
Allison Fleshman:It was great.
Allison Fleshman:But then they just handed it to me in a can.
Allison Fleshman:So there I am, like, can I have a wine glass, please?
Allison Fleshman:Um, because always pour your beers out of those cans because the importance is to make sure that those aromatic molecules can get to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:And if you don't, you are not getting what you pay for.
Allison Fleshman:Because any guesses who you just had, what beer we have that you just drank?
Allison Fleshman:4 7 0 5 4 7. Oh, how about her little sister?
Allison Fleshman:So this is our little todo, which was made in homage to the 5, 4 7.
Allison Fleshman:And the 5 4 7 is a rather robust IPA.
Allison Fleshman:This is our take on a west coast IPA, which is not as, uh, high in alcohol, I believe at 6.7 A BV.
Allison Fleshman:I'm looking at you.
Allison Fleshman:Bobby Fleshman.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:Get a thumbs up.
Allison Fleshman:As opposed to 8.9%, which is our 5 4 7.
Allison Fleshman:But it's really, it's made in the same style.
Allison Fleshman:Is in a west coast IPA, but it's not as hoppy.
Allison Fleshman:You're gonna have a little bit less hops in the notes.
Allison Fleshman:And I believe it does have a little bit more citrusy.
Allison Fleshman:Yes, you got some of that grass.
Allison Fleshman:Grass grassy.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:Those grassy notes.
Allison Fleshman:One might call them terpenes, which is a word you will learn very soon.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So that was my demonstration about how important it is to drink your beer from a glass.
Allison Fleshman:And or a plastic cup as we are doing now.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but get it out of the can.
Allison Fleshman:Get it out of the bottle, get it into a glass such that it too can breathe because those little molecules have something to say and they say it to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:So one of the things I really like to say in my beer science classes is that taste is the most honest communication you can have with yourself.
Allison Fleshman:You like what you like and however you taste it.
Allison Fleshman:You can't convince yourself you like something when it tastes not so good or when you just don't like it very much.
Allison Fleshman:I'm drinking a malty beer because I love malt flavor.
Allison Fleshman:I'm sure the little tona that you just had is fantastic.
Allison Fleshman:I've only had it twice I think.
Allison Fleshman:'cause I just don't drink it as often.
Allison Fleshman:But that does not mean I don't really appreciate that it was executed beautifully.
Allison Fleshman:So let's talk more about what I'm gonna bring you through tasting is based on uh, or the science of beer tasting.
Allison Fleshman:You can dive into it many different ways, but one of the things I'm gonna go off of is the beer certification judging program.
Allison Fleshman:So you can, it's called BJCP, and there are these documents that you can follow to score different beers.
Allison Fleshman:If you were interested, you can contact BJCP and become a certified judger to where you sit at a table and drink beer all afternoon and are trained in all of the different aromatics, mouthfeel, appearance, aromas of what it should be to the style.
Allison Fleshman:Not as fun as it sounds, by the way.
Allison Fleshman:It is not as fun as it sounds, as Bobby says.
Allison Fleshman:We, oh my goodness.
Allison Fleshman:The diligence.
Allison Fleshman:It's like a lot of paperwork.
Allison Fleshman:It's a lot of paperwork.
Allison Fleshman:It takes the fun out of beer.
Allison Fleshman:But that's okay.
Allison Fleshman:Sorry.
Allison Fleshman:You don't have to be a cone to do that.
Allison Fleshman:You do not have to be a cone.
Allison Fleshman:These are two separate programs.
Allison Fleshman:And so the Beer Judge certification program is really about, uh, the beer competitions.
Allison Fleshman:And so when we send our beers off to get, um, nationally recognized and win their medals, 'cause many of them do this is what they would use, uh, to make sure that it is in fact a style.
Allison Fleshman:So I'm gonna take you through a couple of the nuances of the beer score sheet, and for those listening at home, you too can find this score sheet on the Beer Judge certification program.
Allison Fleshman:Okay, so let's break up smell and, or, or, um, smell into odor and aroma.
Allison Fleshman:So there's two ways that you can get molecules into your body.
Allison Fleshman:You can either smell them or you can through your nose, or you can either taste or smell them through your mouth.
Allison Fleshman:So if it's an odor, that means that the smell is coming into through your nose.
Allison Fleshman:And if it's an aroma, it's coming through your mouth, getting to your olfactory glands.
Allison Fleshman:And so the aroma are the aromatics from tasting the beer.
Allison Fleshman:You missed that when you covered up, or sorry, you missed the odor part when you covered up the taste of the, or the, um, covered your hand over the glass or over the cup.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and when you're drinking from a straw, you're not getting the odor part, you're just getting what's coming through the mouth.
Allison Fleshman:And so you're missing half the story.
Allison Fleshman:And then there are ways that you can think about, or there are ways that you can dissect, for lack of a better phrase, areas on the tongue to where you're gonna taste sour notes, salty notes, as well as bitter notes.
Allison Fleshman:And so if you've had that bitter aftertaste after you've had an IPA and it's kind of on the back of the tongue, that's because that's where the taste receptors are for the bitterness flavor.
Allison Fleshman:And we couldn't be talking about smelling beers without talking about our infamous 5, 4 7.
Allison Fleshman:So the 5 4 7 is our Imperial IPA and it has some fantastic molecules that love to dance from the surface and come to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:So one of the reasons that we like to have our IPA either in the tulip glass or one that's like a no type, um, is because those molecules will need to be concentrated and they will leave the top of the beer, go to your nasal cavity, and they are called volatile.
Allison Fleshman:Anytime you walk by a nail salon, you might smell something.
Allison Fleshman:What do y'all smell when you walk by a nail salon, like the little opening at the grocery store?
Allison Fleshman:Ace, acetone, fantastic nail polish remover.
Allison Fleshman:Acetone is incredibly volatile.
Allison Fleshman:Those molecules love to be in the gas phase, which is why you get them in your nose.
Allison Fleshman:So those types of molecules have the same type of properties that the molecules in the tops of the beers and the smells of the beers have.
Allison Fleshman:And that's what we're gonna go into.
Allison Fleshman:So that glassware is really important.
Allison Fleshman:Glassware is super important into smelling and really concentrating or not concentrating.
Allison Fleshman:The glass that I'm holding now is a wide mouth dimple mug, and I've got my Yorkshire round English brown ale.
Allison Fleshman:Not many aromatics in this one.
Allison Fleshman:Not very hoppy.
Allison Fleshman:I don't like hops.
Allison Fleshman:I appreciate hops, just not too many of them.
Allison Fleshman:And so I have a very wide mouth glass right now because this doesn't have as many of the aromatic compounds that my 5 4 7 does.
Allison Fleshman:And so it needs a lot more help, as in there's a lot more surface area for those molecules to come to my nose as opposed to the ones that have a lot to offer.
Allison Fleshman:Speaking of hops, which are not in the Yorkshire round at all.
Allison Fleshman:What do hops do aside from bring some lovely cover to our outside beer garden in the summer and fall?
Allison Fleshman:So hops add a lot of these aromatic compounds, the molecules that are gonna quickly escape and come to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:And so they're about 50% cellulose, 10% water, but then they're also 21% alpha acids and 2% oils.
Allison Fleshman:They've also got some protein in them.
Allison Fleshman:And protein, like I've talked about in my last class protein helps really create some structure to them bubbles.
Allison Fleshman:And so if you wanna have really nice foamy heads at the top of that beer, you want a lot of, have a lot of protein.
Allison Fleshman:Hops can contribute that.
Allison Fleshman:The nice thing about hops is that they give that 2% oil.
Allison Fleshman:It's not much, but it's enough to really add to those molecules that give you some of that wonderful smell.
Allison Fleshman:The alpha acids are that bitter flavor.
Allison Fleshman:And so if you're like me and don't like the bitterness, it's the alpha acids to blame.
Allison Fleshman:However, they do serve a purpose.
Allison Fleshman:I don't remember the balance of hops in my Yorkshire round.
Allison Fleshman:Bobby, can you tell me how much hops are in here?
Allison Fleshman:IBUs you mean?
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Uh, it's about 25.
Allison Fleshman:So the international bittering unit is the number metric that we put to how much hops are in a beer.
Allison Fleshman:So the IBU for my Yorkshire round is, you said 25?
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:What about for 5, 4, 7 light lager?
Allison Fleshman:5 47 is about 80.
Allison Fleshman:80. There you go.
Allison Fleshman:That's everyone's like shaking their head like, oh yeah, that's a big one.
Allison Fleshman:And so a non hoppy beer, 18 to 20 hoppy, hoppy, hoppy, 70 to 80 or so, IBU.
Allison Fleshman:So that's that bittering flavor.
Allison Fleshman:The aroma, however, comes from that 2% oil.
Allison Fleshman:And so this is where those nuances of those \ hop recipes, um, and which hops you add to which beers really help adjust the smell.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:Any questions so far?
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:So does the IBU more of a, of a, a kinda a relative scale?
Allison Fleshman:Or is it an absolute scale?
Allison Fleshman:Subjective?
Allison Fleshman:Subjective scale?
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:So I would say it is an absolute scale.
Allison Fleshman:But it depends.
Allison Fleshman:And so if you're tasting.
Allison Fleshman:Something that has a high IBU that's gonna tell you how many bittering units are present, so how much hops are there.
Allison Fleshman:However, that doesn't tell you anything about how much malt or sugar is there to balance that flavor.
Allison Fleshman:And so it could be that our very, very hoppy high IBU beers could also have a ton of malt there to balance the flavor.
Allison Fleshman:So it might appear like a high IBU, but you might not taste it as much or vice versa.
Allison Fleshman:A low IBU might not be accentuated as much with the malt flavor or the malt character, and so it stands out more.
Allison Fleshman:So it's really about that balancing game.
Allison Fleshman:For that reason, we don't put IBU on our cans for that reason.
Allison Fleshman:We don't put IB on our cans.
Allison Fleshman:That's what Bobby says.
Allison Fleshman:Trying to find out.
Allison Fleshman:Right.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So we are gonna talk about those aromatic compounds.
Allison Fleshman:All right.
Allison Fleshman:To the edge of your seat.
Allison Fleshman:We should move.
Allison Fleshman:Here we go.
Allison Fleshman:May I introduce the terpenes?
Allison Fleshman:Donna, so the terpenes, there are more than 30,000 types of terpenes, and we've talked about this before on our podcast.
Allison Fleshman:But the cool thing is if you're listening, you can download these slides and you too can follow along and learn more about the wonders of the terpenes.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so they're dominantly made by plants.
Allison Fleshman:So if you've ever had, um, so wait.
Allison Fleshman:Y'all told me earlier that the todo, our little tornado had kind of a grassy flavor.
Allison Fleshman:Ta-da.
Allison Fleshman:So the grassy flavor is gonna come from these terpenes.
Allison Fleshman:And they're, uh, kind of this vegetal plant-like series of molecules.
Allison Fleshman:They also dominate the aroma of beer.
Allison Fleshman:I don't really have that in my multi Yorkshire round because we didn't pick out the hops that are gonna have dominant oils, the oils or the hops that were chosen for.
Allison Fleshman:Little todo do have a high concentration of these particular aromatics.
Allison Fleshman:Cool.
Allison Fleshman:Okay, so let's talk a little bit about these chemistry lesson.
Allison Fleshman:Woo.
Allison Fleshman:I know, collective sigh.
Allison Fleshman:Okay, we're gonna start.
Allison Fleshman:Very simple.
Allison Fleshman:Octane.
Allison Fleshman:Have you heard of the word octane?
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:What bring, what is octane fuel, fuel, gasoline.
Allison Fleshman:Go to your car, go to the pump.
Allison Fleshman:Put fuel in.
Allison Fleshman:That is octane.
Allison Fleshman:It has eight carbons.
Allison Fleshman:I am going to count these out.
Allison Fleshman:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. But I, that's busy.
Allison Fleshman:I don't like all those hydrogens and car.
Allison Fleshman:It's kind of a lot.
Allison Fleshman:So I reduce it to this line structure.
Allison Fleshman:This and this to me are the exact same thing as a chemist, which is, it makes it easier to see it.
Allison Fleshman:So basically long stick or long bendy stick, that's octane.
Allison Fleshman:And we call those hydrocarbons.
Allison Fleshman:All right.
Allison Fleshman:There's another version of the line structure.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So.
Allison Fleshman:Here are some essential oils.
Allison Fleshman:These terpenes.
Allison Fleshman:Notice a bunch of sticks.
Allison Fleshman:What do you know about Octane?
Allison Fleshman:Is it a liquid or a gas?
Allison Fleshman:I know that's funny.
Allison Fleshman:Downstairs.
Allison Fleshman:Liquid.
Allison Fleshman:Liquid.
Allison Fleshman:Cool.
Allison Fleshman:And what happens when you mix it with water doesn't it doesn't, it doesn't like to mix at all.
Allison Fleshman:So because it doesn't mix, that means that those essential oils are gonna be the exact same way.
Allison Fleshman:They do not want to mix with water at all.
Allison Fleshman:Okay?
Allison Fleshman:So what's gonna happen is because they don't wanna mix with water, they want to get away from water as fast as possible.
Allison Fleshman:When they get away from water, what's gonna happen is these basically stick molecules are gonna do this Fun little animation.
Allison Fleshman:Watch it.
Allison Fleshman:Dance.
Allison Fleshman:Stand, stand, stand, escape.
Allison Fleshman:Oh.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, let's do it again.
Allison Fleshman:All right, so we've got one of these stick molecules.
Allison Fleshman:Again, this could be any number of these terpenes.
Allison Fleshman:When you're cutting your fresh cut grass or you're cutting, not the fresh cut grass, you wouldn't cut, cut grass.
Allison Fleshman:You are freshly cutting that grass.
Allison Fleshman:What do you smell?
Allison Fleshman:Grass.
Allison Fleshman:Grass.
Allison Fleshman:Very sad grass 'cause you're killing the grass.
Allison Fleshman:But what you get is all of those terpene molecules are escaping and quickly coming up into the air.
Allison Fleshman:What they're doing is they don't have very strong interactions, so they quick, quick, quick and evaporate away.
Allison Fleshman:This is what makes them aromatic.
Allison Fleshman:And anything that you see, that's just a bunch of sticks, as in hydrocarbons are volatile.
Allison Fleshman:This is what's happening with the acetone as you walk by the, um, nail salon.
Allison Fleshman:It's also what's happening with isopropanol.
Allison Fleshman:So rubbing alcohol, very volatile.
Allison Fleshman:It, it's gonna evaporate really quickly.
Allison Fleshman:This is also what happens with any number of essential oils.
Allison Fleshman:Or the fragrances that are in certain lotions and things.
Allison Fleshman:As soon as you smell it, those molecules want to dance.
Allison Fleshman:Dance, escape.
Allison Fleshman:They escape pretty well.
Allison Fleshman:So the terpenes, oh, actually, if y'all wanna start up the next two and we're gonna do, oh, you've already got 'em ready to go.
Allison Fleshman:Love it.
Allison Fleshman:So the terpenes become terpenoids.
Allison Fleshman:Oh.
Allison Fleshman:I mean, that might sound uncomfortable, but the molecules don't mind, so,
Allison Fleshman:so I want you to look, I've got two molecules.
Allison Fleshman:The top ones in the bottom ones.
Allison Fleshman:The top ones have sticks.
Allison Fleshman:The bottom ones all have something added to the stick.
Allison Fleshman:What's been added to the stick?
Allison Fleshman:Water.
Allison Fleshman:Oxygen.
Allison Fleshman:Oh, an oxygen and a hydrogen.
Allison Fleshman:Fantastic.
Allison Fleshman:That's what we call a hydroxyl group or an alcohol.
Allison Fleshman:Ooh.
Allison Fleshman:So I know all of those are alcohols, right?
Allison Fleshman:They're not the alcohol that we like.
Allison Fleshman:That's ethanol.
Allison Fleshman:This is the alcoholed version, or added a hydroxy group.
Allison Fleshman:Double stick became a stick in a uh oh, or a hydroxyl double stick became a stick in a hydroxyl.
Allison Fleshman:So when you have the uh, myers scene, once you had that hydroxyl group, then it becomes lilu.
Allison Fleshman:This is the smell of lavender.
Allison Fleshman:Likewise, Racine becomes ol, which is the smell of rose, my Racine.
Allison Fleshman:Once you add the hydroxyl group here, it becomes citronelle or the citrusy smell.
Allison Fleshman:Notice how they all started with the same terpene molecule.
Allison Fleshman:So depending on which reaction pathway it goes, or which stick is the one that like, oh, I guess I'm the one that's gonna bond with the hydroxyl, or the oh will give you different types of smells and sometimes vastly different.
Allison Fleshman:So this is one of the challenges.
Allison Fleshman:Of in the brewing process, making sure that you gets your myers scene to go the route that you want it to go.
Allison Fleshman:Mm.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So these are our two cast condition ales.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so this is an English IPA and a Yorkshire round English brown.
Allison Fleshman:This is why I'm drinking our Yorkshire round tonight.
Allison Fleshman:I'm really trying to boost our Yorkshire round.
Allison Fleshman:She's a beauty.
Allison Fleshman:Oh my goodness.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but she doesn't have nearly as many hops.
Allison Fleshman:So what you're getting is you're getting, so this is what I'm drinking up front.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so you're getting a lot of the roasty character, but not much in the nose.
Allison Fleshman:And our tall mast English IPA.
Allison Fleshman:So this one is not gonna be a hot bomb.
Allison Fleshman:It's not gonna smack you with all the different hop aromatics.
Allison Fleshman:There's some, but it's not nearly as much.
Allison Fleshman:And so the thing about this, I believe, and I don't know where Bobby went, I believe these are the same yeast.
Allison Fleshman:So this is a way for us to figure out, okay, this is really just grain and hops are the difference.
Allison Fleshman:No yeast differences.
Allison Fleshman:So the same yeast are giving you both our Yorkshire Round and our English IPA, um, the Tall Mast, and yet different malts and different hops.
Allison Fleshman:Very much different smells.
Allison Fleshman:Go team.
Allison Fleshman:Anything else about these two beers?
Allison Fleshman:They're both beautiful, aren't they?
Allison Fleshman:Mm-hmm.
Allison Fleshman:Okay, so now we're gonna go on into mouth feel.
Allison Fleshman:So how did this mouth, these two, their mouth feel, compare to the todo one, the first one that we did?
Allison Fleshman:What do you think?
Allison Fleshman:Smoother.
Allison Fleshman:Smoother, okay.
Allison Fleshman:Little less bubbly maybe?
Allison Fleshman:Yep.
Allison Fleshman:So the cast condition nails are gonna have a slightly different mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:They're gonna try and, well, hydrogenation or nitro beers really try and simulate cast conditioned ones.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but the, the mouthfeel of these beers is definitely a lot smoother.
Allison Fleshman:They're gonna have smaller bubbles.
Allison Fleshman:They're not gonna have nearly the same effervescence, or they don't have the same number of molecules leaving as soon as you take a drink.
Allison Fleshman:Because they have fewer of those hop alpha acids and those hop, it felt like they had more body.
Allison Fleshman:More body, absolutely.
Allison Fleshman:And that a lot of that body comes from the yeast.
Allison Fleshman:The way that the yeast process the sugars and then yield the alcohol, they're also gonna yield a lot of different molecules, is gonna affect what's called the viscosity of the beer.
Allison Fleshman:Hang around in your mouth as long either.
Allison Fleshman:No, not at all.
Allison Fleshman:And then that's it.
Allison Fleshman:So let's talk about three different things about mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:So there's carbonation, fullness, and aftertaste.
Allison Fleshman:So carbonation, this is all about how much CO2 is in the beer.
Allison Fleshman:What's the bubble size, the foam volume?
Allison Fleshman:Is it nitrogenated?
Allison Fleshman:Is it cast conditioned?
Allison Fleshman:So those are gonna all affect the mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:Now, for those of you that experienced, oh, now is your test.
Allison Fleshman:For those of you that experienced my last class about the differences between CO2 and hydrogenation or nitrogen, there is a law that governs it all and it's called.
Allison Fleshman:Henry Henry's law.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:No podcast listener Henry's law.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So for those of you that don't recall Henry's law, shame on you.
Allison Fleshman:Get out, there's the door.
Allison Fleshman:No, I'm kidding.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so Henry's law, when you shake the crap out of a, uh, of a soda bottle and you then open it, what happens?
Allison Fleshman:Right?
Allison Fleshman:That's the ultimate definition of Henry Henry's law.
Allison Fleshman:That's Henry's law.
Allison Fleshman:So the more the carbon dioxide or the nitrogen likes the water, the more it's gonna stay in the beer.
Allison Fleshman:If you force CO2 or nitrogen into the beer, it's gonna wanna come out.
Allison Fleshman:If you put too much in, it's gonna wanna come out, that's when you.
Allison Fleshman:Uh, what's that called?
Allison Fleshman:When you open a beer, you flick it.
Allison Fleshman:You, I don't even know.
Allison Fleshman:You just open one click looking at me.
Allison Fleshman:I don't know because you, well, it's because it's blinding right here.
Allison Fleshman:One, I can see when you pop the top of the beer, can, it makes that sound.
Allison Fleshman:What that's doing, is it the CO2 that's in the head?
Allison Fleshman:Pressure is escaping, but there's still CO2 in the beer itself.
Allison Fleshman:What happens when you leave that beer for two hours and a glass on the table gets really flat?
Allison Fleshman:Gets flat?
Allison Fleshman:That's Henry's law that CO2 wants to leave the beer.
Allison Fleshman:Nitrogen, however, wants to leave it hell of a lot faster.
Allison Fleshman:Nitrogen is what we call non-polar.
Allison Fleshman:It doesn't like to stick around in beer, so it's gonna leave faster.
Allison Fleshman:That's gonna affect the mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:It's also gonna affect how well those.
Allison Fleshman:Aromatic molecules get to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:As soon as you take a drink, the nitrogenated beers are gonna hold onto some of those molecules more.
Allison Fleshman:The co or the nitrogenated beers, um, are gonna be creamier and that nitrogen will have already escaped, whereas the CO2 beers are actually going to be coming to your nose a little bit faster.
Allison Fleshman:The other thing that's fascinating is that Henry's law is temperature dependent.
Allison Fleshman:Let's assume that you have your beer and you've set it outside in winter.
Allison Fleshman:Well, don't do it in winter 'cause it'll freeze.
Allison Fleshman:Um, well, you set it out in early spring in Wisconsin, then you set it out in the dead of August.
Allison Fleshman:Which one goes flat faster?
Allison Fleshman:August, August.
Allison Fleshman:Again, temperature dependence of Henry's law.
Allison Fleshman:You are already all established in chemistry.
Allison Fleshman:This is fantastic.
Allison Fleshman:And so the CO2 gets more aromatic or escapes faster when it's hotter.
Allison Fleshman:This is one of the reasons that our, this beer lines are all glycol chilled because we wanna make sure that that beer never touches anything that's not.
Allison Fleshman:Uh, cooler temperatures because it's gonna off-gas.
Allison Fleshman:The CO2, well, your mouth is not cooler temperature, so as soon as that beer hits your mouth, those CO2 molecules are going to evaporate faster and they're gonna leave taking more molecules with them that then go to your nose.
Allison Fleshman:It's basically the same as the sound when you open that shaken up can happening every time you take a drink.
Allison Fleshman:Right.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:So that's CO2 and carbonation.
Allison Fleshman:Okay.
Allison Fleshman:This is why carbonation is so important.
Allison Fleshman:Okay, so now to viscosity.
Allison Fleshman:This is a fun one.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so this hot out, not hot off the presses.
Allison Fleshman:Um, uh, my PhD was actually in viscosity.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and I've done all the mathematics behind viscosity.
Allison Fleshman:So that's, this is the closest I'll ever get to my actual PhD work, but there it is.
Allison Fleshman:Um, so viscosity, perceived way.
Allison Fleshman:So the idea is honey is the best example.
Allison Fleshman:And speaking of honey, we saw some fantastic honey from the Wisconsin Land Trust that we just put in to our double chocolate stout, I believe is what it's called.
Allison Fleshman:The Best definition is an expert in viscosity, I can tell you is the honey.
Allison Fleshman:What happens when you heat up?
Allison Fleshman:The honey lowers the viscosity.
Allison Fleshman:Ah, it lowers the viscosity.
Allison Fleshman:It flows better.
Allison Fleshman:What happens when you chill the honey?
Allison Fleshman:doesn't I, I'm getting some choreograph, like, yeah.
Allison Fleshman:It doesn't move at all.
Allison Fleshman:It's really frustrating.
Allison Fleshman:Um.
Allison Fleshman:And so this is the same thing with beer.
Allison Fleshman:Depending on what things are present in the beer, it's going to change the mouthfeel and the viscosity, uh, or the mouth, the viscosity and the density, which changes the mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:So mouth mouthfeel also involves aftertaste.
Allison Fleshman:So the lasting sensation that astringency, the stickiness, all of that all contributes to that mouthfeel.
Allison Fleshman:So it's like almost the before the middle and the after.
Allison Fleshman:So one of the things I wanna talk about aftertaste is where does it come from?
Allison Fleshman:And a lot of the astringency that kind of puckering.
Allison Fleshman:Think about tea when you've steeped that tea a little too long.
Allison Fleshman:Yeah.
Allison Fleshman:Like I've got a lot of folks are getting that kind of, that flavor.
Allison Fleshman:So who's the culprit?
Allison Fleshman:That's the bad boy right there.
Allison Fleshman:This is tannic acid.
Allison Fleshman:And for those listening at home, Google tannic acid and pick, push the images button and you'll just see a, an orgy of molecules and o's and uh, hs.
Allison Fleshman:It's quite a bit, um, where my beard, oh, there's my beer.
Allison Fleshman:So, uh, as strange is sometimes called tannic.
Allison Fleshman:Well, the reason is because of tannic acid and that's what tannins are and they are very large molecules.
Allison Fleshman:But the thing is, is because of all those O'S and Hs, they hang around.
Allison Fleshman:We are water-based life forms.
Allison Fleshman:Your saliva is filled with water too.
Allison Fleshman:Those little O'S and H'S are going to attract to water and they're gonna stick around.
Allison Fleshman:Unlike the sticks that we saw before, those terpenes which quickly go away.
Allison Fleshman:So that's one of the reasons that tannic acid or those tannins hang around on your tongue is because of the type of intermolecular interaction, there's the molecules making a stand.
Allison Fleshman:So, uh, if you're interested in learning more, people will constantly tell me like, oh, you're a chemist.
Allison Fleshman:That must help the beer so much in the brewery.
Allison Fleshman:And I am not that kind of chemist.
Allison Fleshman:I'm what's called a theoretical physical chemist.
Allison Fleshman:So I do the physics of beer, or not physics of beer.
Allison Fleshman:I do the physics of chemistry and spiritual.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:And I don't, I don't do anything actually beer related.
Allison Fleshman:I'm not a biochemist.
Allison Fleshman:I'm not a synthetic organic chemist.
Allison Fleshman:I've learned most of the chemistry I've learned, I've learned from teaching my chemistry of art course, um, as well as reading this book by Randy Mosher on tasting beer.
Allison Fleshman:It's a fantastic resource.
Allison Fleshman:Um, and one of the sad parts about.
Allison Fleshman:Uh, owning a brewery is, um, in the conversations I have with so many folks, there's that hesitation that folks have.
Allison Fleshman:They're like, I'd like to tell you about what I think about this beer, but I don't know much about beer.
Allison Fleshman:So they clam up and they're like, I'm not worthy enough to talk about beer.
Allison Fleshman:And I'm like, but taste is the most honest communication you have with yourself.
Allison Fleshman:Does it taste like bandaid?
Allison Fleshman:Say bandaid!
Allison Fleshman:Does it taste like roses?
Allison Fleshman:Say roses!
Allison Fleshman:I don't care.
Allison Fleshman:Just tell you.
Allison Fleshman:You know, tell me what you think.
Allison Fleshman:Um, but then, but we're all blessed with different palettes.
Allison Fleshman:Absolutely.
Allison Fleshman:Everyone is blessed with different palettes.
Allison Fleshman:And if you like that, if it brings you joy.
Allison Fleshman:I'll be damned if I want you to drink anything else.
Allison Fleshman:I want you to drink joy.
Allison Fleshman:Um, if you look also on the north side of the tap room, you'll see a lot of antique steins.
Allison Fleshman:Um, the same gentleman gave those to us as well as a place he wanted them to be preserved.
Allison Fleshman:And a place that would respect the beer and know there's no better place to respect the beer than Mc Fleshman or by listening to Respecting the Beer Podcast.
Allison Fleshman:Go team.
Allison Fleshman:Hey.
Allison Fleshman:Alright.
Allison Fleshman:Thank you all.
Allison Fleshman:Please go team.
Allison Fleshman:Um, please.
Allison Fleshman:I'm happy to answer any questions that y'all have.
Allison Fleshman:There's lots of beer science.
Allison Fleshman:Yay.
Allison Fleshman:Not all your hands at once.
Allison Fleshman:Oh,
Allison Fleshman:lot of science there.
Allison Fleshman:Lots of science there.
Allison Fleshman:I think that's all I've got.
Allison Fleshman:Yes.
Allison Fleshman:That is all I have.
Allison Fleshman:All right.
Allison Fleshman:Thank you all.
Allison Fleshman:Thank you.
Allison Fleshman:And enjoy.
Allison Fleshman:Thank you.
David Kalsow:I hope you learn something more about beer tasting in this episode.
David Kalsow:As always, you can join the Facebook group to learn more about the show in between episodes, and you can join us over on Patreon, where they'll get episodes a week ahead of time and bonus content not seen in the main feed.
David Kalsow:And as always, please remember to respect the beer.
