Taplist: The Hildy Pils

Gary Arndt: 00:00:05

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Respecting the Beer.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:07

My name is Gary Arndt with me as usual are the mad scientists, the good doctors, Robert and Allison Fleshman.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:18

He's actually not a Robert,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:19

Right, we've covered that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:20

Yeah, we've covered that.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:21

I didn't know that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:22

Yeah, I fought with the,

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:22

He is officially Bobby

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:24

With the thesis committee and the university.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:26

To actually print Bobby on the dissertation.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:30

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:31

So his dad is Robert and very common in the south.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:34

Instead of junior you become the nickname.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:37

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:37

So he

Gary Arndt: 00:00:37

So but what is on your birth certificate?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:39

That's it.

Allison Fleshman: 00:00:39

Bobby.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:40

Bobby,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:40

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:41

It's Bobby.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:42

It's a southern thing

Gary Arndt: 00:00:43

That seems really redneck.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:45

It happens in the south.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:46

Yep.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:48

More than you think.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:49

At least.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:00:49

I just have one first name.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:51

One thing I will say.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:52

You have two middle names.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:53

Is that the name you pick for this establishment?

Gary Arndt: 00:00:55

Is a smashing success.

Gary Arndt: 00:00:57

In one respect, you can easily Google it.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:00

Yes.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:00

That's why it's a made up word.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:03

Yes.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:03

There's no other McManns anywhere and

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:07

that was the intention.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:09

It's, it is Googleable and it is go.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:11

There's

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:11

no

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:12

confusion.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:12

Yep.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:01:13

Even Googleable is

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:14

Googleable and it's kind of a ridiculous name, so it's kinda like, what is it?

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:17

Smuckers?

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:18

With a name like Smuckers, it has to be good.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:20

It's Mc Fleshman.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:21

We don't take ourselves seriously.

Allison Fleshman: 00:01:23

Mick Smuckers Mc Muckers.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:26

So in a previous episode we talked about St. Hildegard of Bingham, the woman who gave hops to the world.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:34

Actually, we don't know if she actually did, but she was the first one to write about it, so she kind of gets credit for it.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:38

The patron saint of beer and brewing.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:41

But today we're gonna talk about the Hilde Pilsner.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:46

Which is one of the beers you make here at Mc Fleishmans.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:49

And uh, why don't we start out with why you picked that for the name?

Gary Arndt: 00:01:56

Ooh.

Gary Arndt: 00:01:56

Why didn't you use hilde?

Gary Arndt: 00:01:58

'cause it's associated with hops with like an IPA.

Gary Arndt: 00:02:01

Why a Pilsner?

Gary Arndt: 00:02:02

Hmm.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:04

You want to, you wanna take that or you want

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:06

Sure.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:06

I think this, so the, um.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:09

Infamous to us, but no one else probably cares.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:12

Our trip to Cincinnati to go buy the back bar the big piece of stained glass in our tap room.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:17

Bobby and I had way too much espresso and came up with, I think I'm counting it up, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10 of the names of our flagship beers in one five hour span.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:28

And Hilde, when we were talking about a pilsner, it kind of rolls off the tongue.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:33

It's hilde pills and there's that fun alliteration.

Allison Fleshman: 00:02:37

Um, but also the beauty of the Czech Pilsner is that there's just a hint of hops that really distinguishes it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:44

Well, the, so IPA as we know it today, uh, even as we knew it in England, the, uh, those are, those are hoppy beers for sure, but.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:02:55

There was a time, and those are made with hops that have been sort of bred for their characteristics, intense characteristics sometimes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:02

But before that, there were these hops that were called noble hops, and they were land race varieties found in continental Europe teang, uh, ma, middle fruit, uh, balter, and then the, those are all German Bavarian.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:16

But then if you go east of that, you find that the most famous variety of all the hops in all of history.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:21

And that's the saw hops, SAAZ.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:23

And they're a little bit, uh, a little bit flowery, a little bit earthy, a little bit spicy, but they're really delicate and they're not high in bitterness potential.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:33

They're really about all of those botanical as attributes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:37

And the, the checks are beer drinkers like no other, except maybe Wisconsin.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:42

And they have learned to make one of the most drinkable styles in all of history.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:47

And that's what.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:48

The Czech Pilsner is, it's really built around this land race that means not bred to exist.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:52

Variety.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:03:53

The saw hops and then they learn to grow barley and malt, the bar barley, and then can refine their process to make a pilsner style around it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:05

And, uh, really birth the, the industry as we know it today, the, the pilsner is what so many styles have gone on to emulate for the last several hundred years.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:13

So one of the fun parts about, the Hilde is that her original name was gonna be the Hildegard Pilsner.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:20

So her full name, well not Hildegard of band, but just Hildegard.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:24

And then her nickname was gonna be Hilde Pils.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:26

But that got,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:27

I love that alliteration.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:28

I love that.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:29

So great.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:30

But it got lost.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:31

And when we finally got around to the label and to selling it, that I don't think she's ever been known as Hildegard Pilsner, I call her that, but I'm kind of her mother.

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:40

Yeah, but

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:41

get back in here.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:43

Right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:43

Hilde?

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:44

But, uh, you

Gary Arndt: 00:04:45

should have named Jade that,

Allison Fleshman: 00:04:47

no.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:47

Well, we, you almost, I, I met someone who named their daughter.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:50

He's a brewer at, uh, Exploreum in Milwaukee, named their daughter after our beer, which is named after Hildy.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:04:58

So his daughter's named Hilde.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:00

Are you serious?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:01

Mm-hmm.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:01

Oh my gosh.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:01

Yep.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:03

That's, that's crazy.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:04

I know the inception,

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:06

although we named her after a spacecraft.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:09

So

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:10

shout out to Nick at Exploreum

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:12

anyway.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:12

But yeah, so, so the Hildegard Pilsner, AKA, the Hilde Pils I don't know.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:16

I think also it's the Pilsner is such a good craft curious gateway beer.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:27

And I think if we go deep into the, like, Hildegard's the actual person's contributions.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:33

I mean, she was a mathematician.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:35

She was a botanist.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:36

She was a musician.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:38

She

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:39

refer to a 10 minute episode by Gary Arnt on everything Edward Wore Daily.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:43

I'm sure I know that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:45

I've heard one episode based on that out.

Gary Arndt: 00:05:48

Oh, a while ago.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:48

While

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:49

ago.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:49

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:49

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:49

Anyway, so I, I think that the Pilsner is a. A lot of people can recognize a pilsner.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:55

It's a light beer.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:56

It's an easy drinker.

Allison Fleshman: 00:05:58

But,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:05:58

and, and it, and you know, I wasn't gonna talk about this, but really the story of Pilsner begins back with Palle, the pale malt in England, and how people started to make these lighter kiln malts.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:09

And it developed the, the use of glassware to show off the color.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:14

And then you got fancier glassware and so on.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:16

And then Europe wanted a piece of that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:18

And eventually, and more than I can put in front of you, 'cause I don't, I'm not the historian here in this group, but the, the.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:26

Germans and the, and the, and the Czech would perfect that process further and make what we now call the pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:33

And, and there's a Czech pilsner along, I mean, there's a German pilsner that goes alongside the story of the, of the Czech Pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:39

And it should be said that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:41

The, the German Pilsner turns out to be a little drier, a little more minerally and a little hoppier and a little bit more bitter.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:48

And that may strike somebody as more akin to what we would think of as something like an IPA without some of the malt and some of the more fruity aspects.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:56

But then the check pilsner is way more about the balance.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:06:59

It still has that intensity of hops, but it's.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:01

Got a lot more malt character and a lot more residual sugar.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:05

The chemistry of the water is a lot softer, and then that's what made that region so famous and so makes these beers so drinkable.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:12

And right up to today, it's the most popular style in all of Europe.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:16

And they'll see the people pour these out of a luer faucets in the Czech Republic, the luer faucets and it, I'm actually drinking right now, our Munich Dunkle out of a luer faucet.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:26

It makes every beer look and taste amazing.

Allison Fleshman: 00:07:29

That's funny.

Allison Fleshman: 00:07:29

'cause it makes, it looks like it's a cast condition.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:31

It does.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:32

And and you know, the, we talk a lot about the English and, and the coopers, I mean the, uh, Republicans and how much they, they treat their casks a certain way.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:41

But if you go to the Czech Republic, you find.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:07:44

That there is an obsession with glassware, an obsession with how to pour these pilsners like he will not find anywhere else in the world.

Allison Fleshman: 00:07:51

So I'm gonna jump back to Gary's question though, in that so if we're gonna name a beer hilde, I mean, aside from the Hilde pills, which is just fun to say why would we choose the Pilsner as like, if that's like the epic beer name?

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:05

And I think if we really dive even deeper, the, we have a check built system.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:12

Yeah,

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:13

to brew the beer.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:14

So if we're gonna have a flagship, you know, was

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:16

that in our, in, in our logic when we

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:18

were, well, I'm wondering surely

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:20

that was, I think not, no, because I built this recipe before we knew our system.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:22

No, we had the sys 'cause the system was like rusted as all hell in the back warehouse where friends of ours would, we took a man in there like, uh,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:30

I swear I was, was brewing this in 14, which would've been years before we are.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:35

We had the system really, or maybe I was planning, eh, who knows?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:38

But

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:39

it's, we need a lifeline to our friend,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:41

hopefully.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:41

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:41

Um, good friend of ours from Oklahoma who lives in Appleton now.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:44

Hildy is like the lifeblood for him.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:47

Oh.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:47

We, we brew it almost specifically for him too.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:08:49

Most brewers will tell you that a pilsner of some flavor is their favorite of some stripe.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:55

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:08:56

Anyway, but I, yeah, I wonder if that kinda.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:00

Fun fact.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:01

Oh, pilsner's named after the City of Pilsen.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:03

Fun fact.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:04

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:04

Ooh.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:04

Which is in Western Czechia, the region known as Bohemia, which was mm-hmm.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:09

Also at different time as German,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:10

and we'll call this a bohemian pilsner, actually we committed saying Czech Pilsner, but,

Gary Arndt: 00:09:14

and the first pilsner was the pilsner urkel there you you, which is still brewed today.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:22

Absolutely.

Gary Arndt: 00:09:22

And I, and you, you'll see signs for that all over the Czech Republic.

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:26

Yo, isn't that who she's modeled after.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:28

Uh, I mean every pilsner is to some degree, um, you know, fast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:31

I'm jumping forward.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:32

I have some notes here to say about these, this style and, and, uh, diacetyl is one of those flavor notes of this style as apart from a German pilsner, which is not going to have that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:42

So you wanna take diacetyl?

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:44

Yes.

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:45

I'll just eat it.

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:46

What's funny, because I'm eating a lot of popcorn right now.

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:48

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:09:48

Because it's delicious.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:09:50

Diacetyl is, uh, is is produced, uh, the yeast produced the precursor to it during fermentation, through the process of growth and some style, some strains of yeast are more prone than others.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:01

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:01

Before

Gary Arndt: 00:10:01

we get too far into that, let's take a step back and start with water.

Allison Fleshman: 00:10:05

Oh,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:06

okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:06

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:06

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:10:07

Because I think this is always a good,

Allison Fleshman: 00:10:08

is a double ketone.

Allison Fleshman: 00:10:09

It's fun.

Gary Arndt: 00:10:10

A good place to always start with any.

Gary Arndt: 00:10:12

Any of these beers that you brew?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:14

Yeah.

Gary Arndt: 00:10:14

So what are you doing special for the beer or for the water that you put into a hilde?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:19

Yeah, so I always pitch that these styles really began in these regions where their water profile really motivated all the ingredients and processed so.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:28

Pilsner is obvious famous for that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:30

The, the water of Pilsen is extremely soft, meaning low calcium, low in magnesium, low in carbonates too, and in Appleton, as opposed to, uh, Oshkosh, you're gonna finally actually have really soft water.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:45

And that this was a, is

Gary Arndt: 00:10:46

it seasonal though?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:47

It, well, okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:47

The seasonality does play.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:50

It does increase the calcium because of the different road salts that are used and how that does get into our, our water supply.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:57

But.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:10:57

By and large, even at its worst, it still makes for a low mineral water, one in which you can build it without adding any salt whatsoever.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:07

Uh, we will strip it through, uh, as with every beer, we run it through a carbon filter, and that takes out anything sulfurous or, or some of your, all your chlorine and all your chloramines, uh, which have negative effects on, you know, flavor.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:23

Of course.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:24

But also per yeast performance and maybe how your stainless steel performs so long.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:30

Short story short, Appleton is a pretty damn good place to build a brewery and not have to go through the energy intensive process of reverse osmosis.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:40

Which would, which which be to strip every ion out of your water.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:44

We, we've explored that and we may well explore that further in the future where we strip half of it to even get it softer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:50

But if you were gonna build a brewery, this is a pretty good place to, to build it without having to strip those ions to start with.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:55

We just don't add any back.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:11:57

Now you do have to have enough calcium, and this is something people should be aware of, the groundwater.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:03

And the brewing water are not the same thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:05

If people think they go over to Pilsen or wherever they test it, oh, that must be the brewing water.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:10

Not true because whether by 'cause they're not held by the constraints of Ryan Heights Cobo, they can add that stuff today and they may well, and the process by which they treat the water itself allows 'em to precipitate ions out further.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:22

It may be the other extreme, so we.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:27

You were looking at?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:27

Well, I

Allison Fleshman: 00:12:27

was just, no, I was just gonna laugh at you because I don't think that I've ever walked upon like a water source and thought, Hmm, this must be the brewing water.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:34

Right.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:35

Well, that's the thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:35

People don't really know what these beers, like a pilsner urkel water supply looks like.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:39

They know what the groundwater looks like, but they don't know what the they do to it once it gets inside the brewery.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:44

So be careful when we, when.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:46

We preach what it is or isn't.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:48

'cause it may be different than we expect, especially

Allison Fleshman: 00:12:50

if you find yourself in a position that you have to make these decisions and then be careful.

Allison Fleshman: 00:12:53

That's pretty

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:53

impressive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:54

Brewers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:54

Brewers are always obsessed with water.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:56

Gary's not wrong.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:12:57

You start with a thing that's 95% of the ingredients.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:00

So, but the yeast need a little bit of calcium.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:03

You can't put 'em none in there, or they won't perform.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:06

I'm saying it out loud and having this light bulb moment in real time.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:09

If you don't have enough calcium, you don't have enough, uh, what we call attenuation, conversion of those sugars into alcohol and carbon dioxide.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:18

And it may well play into why these sugar, these beers end up with a residual sugar and give you some of that body that that makes it balance with so well with these hops.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:28

That's a

Allison Fleshman: 00:13:28

good limiting reagent problem in my chemistry course.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:30

And backing up on Hilde, if you're gonna name any beer made with hops, after someone who's famous for having been the botanist behind this use, uh, pilsner's the one to go with.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:40

It's, it is hoppy.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:41

It is balanced.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:42

It is the, the top of the mountain as far as difficult beers to make.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:46

And if you ask a lot of brewers.

Gary Arndt: 00:13:49

So then what are you using for grain?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:51

Yeah, so the, there's these, we use all check malt and, and check ingredients in our beers except for the water, of course.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:13:59

And.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:00

What happens is they'll take a locally grown variety of, of, uh, barley and then they'll lightly kill it and they do it on the floor.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:10

And whereas if you go to like a modern malting facility, they'll do it in these, uh, malt houses that have vents and they have automatic pneumatic machines that turn the malt over.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:20

This is the thing you'll see in the Czech Republic that they've done for forever, is that they manually turn the grain over.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:27

On the floor, there's no vents below, and so it, it sort of results in some.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:34

Stratification and some more character in these malts that you really can't replicate in any other way.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:40

So you have to go the distance.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:42

If you wanna make a check pilsner, and not only use malts that are growing there, but you have to use malts that are what, what we call floor malted.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:48

They're more expensive, they're more, I

Gary Arndt: 00:14:50

had no idea that you imported the

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:52

absolutely ingredients for this Every pound.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:55

Well, the, the name of our maltster is, uh, this

Gary Arndt: 00:14:57

is why we were doing this

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:58

exactly.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:14:59

It's, it's a pro.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:00

ProGo, I think is the name of I pro there.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:04

It's Proov is the name of the, the Maltster.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:07

It's, it's P-R-O-S-T-E-J-O-V.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:11

And they make all of our floor malt that we use in this, in this beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:14

And we cannot get it any other way.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:16

We can't get the, the attributes we're looking for any other way.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:19

We've played around with it, both in the flavor perception and or profile, but also.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:24

And that residual sugar, how

Gary Arndt: 00:15:26

many beers do you do that for?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:28

Import the malt?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:29

Specifically for?

Allison Fleshman: 00:15:30

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:15:30

I think all the German ones.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:32

All German.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:33

Uh, we split that between a few different salt skidder best malt via fireman.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:38

And then on the Czech side we have a few that we plow supply from.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:41

And then all English, same way we use Thomas Faucet Baird's Crisp.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:47

We use Belgian malts for all of our Belgian beers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:50

Yeah, we are.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:50

We're very authentic.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:52

We go the distance on all this.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:54

We'll get into all that over the series, I'm sure.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:15:56

But yeah, you have to start with a ver and you don't mess around with these, with the, with the recipe of a pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:01

You don't then go say, oh, let's dump this malt for this and that malt for the other.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:06

You have to celebrate that one ingredient.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:09

And that one ingredient on the malt side is that pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:13

And then the other thing that we are celebrating is the, so hops.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:17

And we'll tend to use an American grown sauce hop as well, because we're looking for sometimes a bittering that, that we could use the, the check grown.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:26

So for, but you're gonna use an inordinate amount of it because it's low in that bittering potential.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:31

So we'll use an American version, which is a beautiful, it's called Sterling.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:35

It's a beautiful variety.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:37

And, uh, it allows us to not dump too much vegetal matter into the beer and kill that balance while also getting that amount of bitterness that we're looking for.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:46

When you run these through, uh, UV spectroscopy, you can, you can measure the bitterness and you'll find these be, are just bitter as an IPA.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:16:54

It's just there's so much sweetness and so much malt backing it up, and that's the beauty of a pilsner striking that balance.

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:01

I was gonna ask if, has Hildy won a medal?

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:03

I don't think she,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:04

no, but she was showcased in crap beer and brewing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:07

She got, she's 98 out of a hundred.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:09

In that magazine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:10

It's one of the most respected.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:12

It's a magazine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:12

It's not a scientific journal, but it was fun to see that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:16

We'll probably submit her.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:17

Why don't you have that

Gary Arndt: 00:17:17

on the walls here?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:18

We should get that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:19

'cause

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:19

for

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:19

stupid Gary.

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:20

That's why.

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:20

Well,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:21

I was just thinking all the

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:22

things.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:22

Oh my

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:22

God.

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:22

Frame picture.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:25

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:25

Hill it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:26

It's a really great magazine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:28

It's shout out to those guys.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:29

It's great content.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:31

Yeah, we won it and we said, cool, and we threw it in the corner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:35

I know, I know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:36

I'm watching Gary's space.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:39

Can we get,

Allison Fleshman: 00:17:40

Megan has business success.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:41

Can we get to the word spooned?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:42

Are we ready for that?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:43

Oh, spooning.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:45

Uh, decoction.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:46

We've covered ad nauseum, but decoctions involved in this too.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:49

In fact, in the, the Czech, they don't even have a word for decoction.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:52

That's just malting.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:53

That's just, that's just mashing and that's just brewing for them.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:17:57

Our system, as Allison said, was built in the Czech Republic and.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:02

So we decco a lot of our beers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:04

You would be ashamed that, that our check pilsner didn't get decco it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:07

So

Allison Fleshman: 00:18:07

he's decco it though, right?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:08

Yeah, it is Decco, absolutely.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:11

I mentioned the noble hops.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:12

What a spuing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:13

I'll get to that because

Allison Fleshman: 00:18:14

when we started you said that you spunned her and I

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:16

didn't understand what that meant.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:17

We'll jump to that.

Allison Fleshman: 00:18:18

You spooned her.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:19

So, okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:21

So let's see.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:22

Gary mentioned Pilsner Kel, which I have great memories of Pilsner or Kel.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:28

It has that I, jumping back to that Diod comment I made earlier, it makes this buttery note from fermentation.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:33

Pilsner, Elle's famous for that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:36

And it's, it gives you a sort of a slickness sort of mouth feel that you're looking for in these beers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:42

But it can get to be a little overwhelming if you don't control that production of diacetyl or the precursor of.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:50

But spending, uh, is meant to for a couple of reasons.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:53

Spending is really simple.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:55

You, you normally let a, it's a German word.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:18:58

You normally let a tank.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:00

Ferment.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:01

And then when it's finished, you know, it stops making, uh, alcohol and carbon dioxide.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:05

And then you close the valve that it's, that it's releasing the, the CO2 from.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:10

And then you might go add exogenously, introduce CO2 through what these centered stones and you carbonate your beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:18

But the Germans don't allow that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:20

They don't allow you to put CO2 into the beer.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:22

That's an ingredient that's against the Rhine Heights boat.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:25

So you have to learn to use the, the CO2 that's made by the yeast.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:28

So you have to know when and how to close the valves.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:30

You don't, you don't want your tank to be over pressurized.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:33

That's really dangerous.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:34

But you don't want to have an under pressurized if you wait too long.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:37

So there's just an art to this, but I'm learning that there's even more of an art to it than than I ever really realized.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:43

When you spun, you can.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:46

And close the valve.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:47

And you can set the spring loaded device, which is called big surprise, a spooning device.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:19:52

And, and the spooning device allows you to hold the pressure and at the same time evolve off the c, the CO2, and along with it some of these off flavors like sulfur could be that you're getting some of these, uh, acid aldehyde or that's probably not so much in the head space, that's their green apple flavor, but you're getting some of your esters evolving away those fruity notes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:12

You gotta strike that balance.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:13

And here's the, here's the really cool thing.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:15

The yeast are acting differently depending on how much pressure they're under.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:19

So you, you're doing lots of these different things.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:22

You're, you're controlling how much they're making to begin with the yeast, and then by allowing the venting to happen over a certain period of time, you're allowing so much to evolve away.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:31

Sulfur being the chief among those, those e evolving compounds, and you're having to balance that with the need to capture just the right amount of CO2, such such that at the end you don't have to add any.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:46

And spooning is an art form and the Germans have perfected it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:49

We've been doing it since day one.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:50

All of our tanks have what,

Allison Fleshman: 00:20:51

six offer compound.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:52

Mercaptan is the worst, but you're thinking about 3M BT, three methyl tube butane.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:57

One thiol.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:58

That's the skunk one.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:20:59

And that comes from,

Gary Arndt: 00:21:00

that's gonna

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:01

be big.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:01

That's gonna be heavier.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:02

No, that comes from hops.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:03

That's a different conversation.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:04

Oh, that's in a liquid?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:04

No, we're talking about something different.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:07

You have SO two and HH two s.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:09

Okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:09

We, one of those is rot egg, the other is burnt match.

Gary Arndt: 00:21:12

H two s

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:13

is rot egg.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:13

SO two is the rotten egg, I think.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:16

I think

Gary Arndt: 00:21:16

it was H two s.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:17

H two s is the burnt match.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:19

Could let me have those backwards in real time.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:22

But either what you want to avoid, and you'll, and you by spooning you're allowing all this to happen all at once.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:27

You're allowing the carbonation to happen, you're controlling the evolution of sulfur compounds and, uh, those other fermentation byproducts.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:35

You're trying, trying to strike a beautifully clean ble beer with just enough character to separate it out from what we would think of as a quote, embalmment Nation of an American.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:44

Pilsner, whatever the fuck that is.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:47

Budweiser.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:49

So pilsner's have, that name has been hijacked and it's, it's definitely not an American creation.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:56

We don't own that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:21:57

But I would say today that, uh, Italian pilsner's a thing and that's, that's sort of like a German pilsner that's now been dry hopped.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:06

So you can go in and add hops later and you get a really nice kind of a IPA aroma from some hops that are grown regionally.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:15

But guess what?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:16

The United States has now latched onto that the last couple of years, and we make what's called a West coast Pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:22

Of course we do.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:23

So we double that, those, all those aspects of that Italian pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:27

And then now there's a New Zealand pilsner you can go on and on on with this.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:31

These are different, uh, dry hot versions of, but the base style.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:34

But do they, they should, but yeah, that's spending, it's a long, long, long description, but.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:40

Yeah, there is an art form to it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:41

It's not just close the tank off, let it carbonate a lot more to it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:44

There's a whole book on the subject.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:48

And you have that book,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:49

I assume I have that book.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:52

Of course.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:53

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:54

I spooned it nightly, so I wanna Oh

Allison Fleshman: 00:22:56

yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:22:58

Oh my gosh.

Gary Arndt: 00:22:59

I, I just can't wait to see Bobby's Amazon review.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:03

Incredible.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:04

Paige Turner could not put it down.

Gary Arndt: 00:23:05

Five stars.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:07

Well, I think we've covered all I have except that oak is a, is an important, if you go back in time there, it's Pilsner Raelle still, and I think that in like 1200 liter casks, they still make Pilsner Elle.

Allison Fleshman: 00:23:19

That's weird though.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:20

Massive cells.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:21

But

Allison Fleshman: 00:23:21

they weren't getting green bottles.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:22

They're, well, okay, let's back up a sec. I know.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:26

We'll come back to that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:27

They pitch line these barrels.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:28

So pitches I effectively pitch is like, isn't it just the, the tree sap, I think.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:34

So they line the inside of these barrels, so it doesn't actually take much barrel character on, and they're very airtight, but they sit in these picturesque cellars that go on for miles, apparently underground in the Pilsner or kale brewery.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:46

And they're all in these wooden fermentation secondary vessels.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:50

And then out of that they transfer out and they, and they package 'em up.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:53

And they're not a small brewery.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:55

Just imagine that they're doing this in oak.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:56

It's blowing their mine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:58

Well, green bottles.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:23:59

So now we are getting into that merca or that 3M BT conversation.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:03

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:03

This

Allison Fleshman: 00:24:04

is where the skunky smell comes

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:05

in.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:05

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:06

So green bottles, green is clear effectively for the light that the sun makes.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:11

So the, the light passes right through green glass into that beer, and it cleaves off.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:16

Sort of a functional arm of our iso alpha acids, and then through a couple of reactions creates the same compound that we associate with skunks.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:25

Not one like it, but the one, so you can make any.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:29

That's why all these green bottled beers are clear ones can be very skunky.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:34

And I think, and this

Allison Fleshman: 00:24:34

is why we freak out if we're in the beer garden.

Allison Fleshman: 00:24:37

And we see someone's glass in the sun.

Allison Fleshman: 00:24:38

We'll scooch it over into, into the, excuse me, sir. I'm just gonna move this over into the shade.

Allison Fleshman: 00:24:44

Don't wanna get some skunk smell.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:46

I have.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:47

We're not weird at all.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:48

I have yet, I have yet to do this.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:50

But I, I'm imagining, and I've been told that getting a pilsner Raquel, which you'll notice is largely canned now smart.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:24:56

There's still plenty of, of green glass, but it's, it's largely canned now.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:01

Getting one of those side by side, I think that difference would be smart.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:04

I've

Gary Arndt: 00:25:04

only seen it in bottles.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:05

Have you.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:06

Okay.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:06

Maybe I've just been keyed on, in, on the option of having it in cans.

Gary Arndt: 00:25:10

Interesting.

Gary Arndt: 00:25:11

Fun fact about 'em.

Gary Arndt: 00:25:12

They did, uh, open fermentation until 1993.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:16

What That is Cool.

Allison Fleshman: 00:25:16

That's

Gary Arndt: 00:25:16

cool.

Gary Arndt: 00:25:17

And they still do small batches of it just so people can try it.

Allison Fleshman: 00:25:20

Is that so they can spend easier?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:24

Oh, spooned.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:25

We all digress.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:27

Anyway, add that to decoction for words in brewing.

Allison Fleshman: 00:25:30

Decoction still wins.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:31

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:33

All right,

Gary Arndt: 00:25:33

so then I suppose the last question would be, are you gonna put Hilde on the menu because it hasn't been on the, the menu for months?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:41

Well, we just spooned it, uh, about four days ago, and now we're in the process of stepping it down, and that means the in temperature.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:50

And as we step it down in temperature, we're trying to hit that.

Allison Fleshman: 00:25:54

Hold on.

Allison Fleshman: 00:25:54

Is a pilsner a logger?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:56

Of course, it's essential.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:57

Why am I just now asking this al question?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:59

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:25:59

Everything we've described was lagger making 1 0

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:01

1.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:02

Yeah, I know.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:02

I'm just now realiz, I, I've never talked to her.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:04

Talked about her as, as one of our laggers there's, 'cause it's the German loggers.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:08

Then we have the British ales and then we've got hilde.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:10

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:10

It's, it's really, it's really the template for lagger making period.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:14

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:15

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:15

It really is.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:17

So we're stepping it down.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:18

We're gonna hold it at about 38 degrees for a few days.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:21

That's traditional by Pilsner Kel Brewery.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:23

So we're following that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:25

The, the yeast that we use is Augustine, so we are using a German yeast with a Czech beer.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:32

Can I just do a side story on Augustine or, sure.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:34

Have we talked about this on the podcast yet?

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:36

Your obsession with August Diener?

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:38

Yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:38

August Stanner, whatever it's called.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:39

Augustine from,

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:41

there was a brewery Yep.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:42

In Oklahoma.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:44

That you worked at and you were so obsessed with this yeast

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:48

still am

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:48

that you, during grad school, the all the beers you would brew, it had to be this yeast, but then you couldn't get it for some reason you couldn't get

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:55

it as a home brewer.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:56

It was hard.

Allison Fleshman: 00:26:56

And then you had to like salvage it from the dregs and what it there

Bobby Fleshman: 00:26:59

I started to get it from that brewery.

Allison Fleshman: 00:27:00

Yeah,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:01

yeah.

Allison Fleshman: 00:27:02

But he would go on and on about it and I wouldn't care.

Allison Fleshman: 00:27:05

And yet you still talk about it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:07

I love Augustine.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:08

Oh, man.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:08

Well, when you, when you're a lagger brewery, and we, we are, we,

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:12

but

Allison Fleshman: 00:27:12

this is back in your home brew days.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:13

Yeah, we we're a lager brewery because I think 65% of our production is laggers.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:18

And every logger brewery has a workhorse.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:21

And ours is that when we're trying to make something clean, non malt expressive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:25

We'll use 34 70, which is a Vian Steffen strain.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:29

And Vian Steffen is also a beautiful, beautiful, uh, yeast, but it's not nearly as expressive.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:35

You don't want to use that in, uh, Czech Pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:38

You want expression.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:39

And now if you're making a German, maybe you do, maybe you wanna get outta the way.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:42

And a 34 70 Vine Stephan would be a better choice.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:45

So that's our two weapons in our toolbox or tools in our toolbox.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:48

I would say that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:49

If we had infinite money and, and tank space and all the things, I, I might actually look into using the pilsner strain and play more with that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:27:58

But, but remember there's economics in running a, a brewery, you can't have a different there every time.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:04

What's that?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:04

There is, I mean, a little bit.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:06

Yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:07

But if I were a home brewer, I would probably throw a Pilsner raelle derivative into the hilde and see how it turned out.

Gary Arndt: 00:28:14

Alright, any more on Hilde?

Allison Fleshman: 00:28:16

I have a question on is it laminated the recipe?

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:20

Oh, that's always the, how we end these, isn't it?

Allison Fleshman: 00:28:23

You haven't changed hilde that much.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:24

Well, you don't brew that often.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:26

I'm, I'm getting more options as far as floor malt availabilities and I, there, I haven't my lead on another one that I'm even more intrigued by, so I'm still playing with, remember, there's really, it really comes down to that.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:41

One malt and that one hop.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:43

And I didn't talk enough about the hop, but I'm still messing around with that base malt, not really messing with our process or our recipe.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:51

'cause I think that there are some small regional differences.

Allison Fleshman: 00:28:54

The recipe is the ingredient

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:56

you would think.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:28:57

But remember, nature throws a new one at you every year, even if you're buying the same one.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:01

So

Allison Fleshman: 00:29:03

stupid

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:03

harvest it.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:04

It does continue.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:05

And I don't think you'll ever meet a brewer that says, oh, happy with my pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:10

Because a pilsner is never going to be mastered by anybody.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:14

That's the whole concept of a pilsner.

Bobby Fleshman: 00:29:17

It's maddening.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:18

All.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:19

Well, that'll conclude this episode of Respecting the Beer.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:21

The producer of Respecting the Beer is David Ello.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:23

Without David, there would not be a show.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:26

Please join the Facebook group to get updates between the episodes and to join us over on Patreon, Patreon where you can get things like all the bits that are edited out of the podcast, as well as opportunities for special beers.

Gary Arndt: 00:29:38

Links to both of these are in the show notes, and until next time, please remember to respect the beer.